Still though, let's get talking about solutions. It's not exactly a groundbreaking argument to say that people who have billions of dollars invested have a lot of money but don't pay a tax rate equal to those who don't have billions of dollars invested in regards to total net worth.

Do we start taxing things everyone owns prior to them actually selling it? Do we force a sale and then a rebuy of stock after 5 years therefore collecting tax revenue from investors? Do we treat loans as income so the "loophole" of taking out a loan based on your assets becomes a bad way to feed yourself?

Ultimately, a billionaire can sell $50 million of their total portfolio and live comfortably for the rest of their lives if they really want to on it and pay no income taxes for the rest of their lives. They are always going to pay a low tax rate if they decide to live well below their means like this.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I imagine the better, more accurate, metric is median net worth. Which is substantially lower than $748k.

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Probably but he didn't say median.

Though, using median opens up the argument that the 45-47% of people who don't pay income taxes actually pay LESS than billionaires, and most of the tax burden falls on the middle and upper middle class, and even the non-super rich upper class, which is a fair thing to point out but I doubt that you and JBills are saying billionaires should pay more so that people only making $1 million a year should pay less.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Using median instead of mean would be way more useful. Isn't half the US population one missed paycheck from being insolvent?

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I'll say this in support of Brick's position, a lot of you who want to tax the hell out of these rich guys based upon the growth of their assets will be howling like scalded cats when you get taxed on the appreciation of your homes.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No doubt, but a large portion of those people also aren't paying taxes.

If we really get down to who gets treated unfairly in our tax system, it won't be a group we really find all that sympathetic about their plight either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Worth it

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from the NYT...
A central reason that very wealthy people can avoid taxes is that the U.S. system taxes only so-called realized gains — like wages or stock sales. But the wealthy often live off unrealized gains — in the form of stocks and other assets that grow more valuable over time. The wealthy borrow against these assets to pay for houses, islands and private planes and then use a variety of strategies to avoid paying taxes on the debt repayment.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

The main issue, as Brick notes, is when is income taxed. If we want to start taxing unrealized gains, get ready to pay on your crypto gains, home price appreciation, and of course your stock portfolio.

As for “loopholes”, you all use them. They are things like deducting mortgage interest, your healthcare premiums, putting money in your 401(k). You are deferring taxes on your 401(k) much like Bezos is on his Amazon stock. It is just delayed recognition until you realize the gains. There is nothing wrong with using things built into the tax code to reduce your current tax liability. In fact, that is just smart money management.

As for who pays taxes, I linked the most recent IRS data below. The richest slice files 22,112 returns out of over 157 million returns. They paid 10.6% of all tax. The over $1 million in income crowd pays 30.2% of all federal income taxes. But the bulk of our taxes are paid by the 19.0% of returns for people that make between $100,000 to $1,000,000 in income crowd that pays 53.4% of all federal income taxes.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/18in11si.xls

So yeah there are a few dozen Americans who have all their wealth tied up in appreciated stock. But for most wealthy and upper middle class folk, out income is heavily taxed because we have wage income. Our blended federal rate is typically between 25-35% of our adjusted gross income.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

People can and do borrow against the untaxed appreciated value of their houses. But how do you pay those loans back? You have to have income to repay the interest and principal. The same rules apply to the uber wealthy.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

But, in most cases, we are talking about fairly meaningless amounts of money there in terms of living day to day. Bezos just sold $1.7 billion in stock to fund the most expensive yacht in the world and he paid $400 million in tax on it. He could live for 100 years on that $1.3 billion if he really wanted without ever borrowing against the rest of his unrealized gains.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Obviously it is entirely legal for Jeff Bezos to purchase a $400,000,000 yacht. I think it's interesting to consider the ethics of making such a purchase. Is it "good" to own a $400,000,000 yacht?

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Sounds like something a guy with no yacht would say.

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It is entirely possible that if I owned a $400,000,000 yacht any morals or ethics I had would be tossed out the porthole of my sweet-ass yacht.

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But how many homes does Jeff Bezos have? There has to be a difference between taxing somebody in a 250K home who makes $60K a year at 13% or whatever, versus a guy who's net worth includes two, or three, or even four commas at less than 1%.

I'm not saying tax Bezos $30 billion, but he should certainly pay more than 1% of that worth. And he should be ineligible for personal tax credits.

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Think of all the money you’ve hypothetically injected into the yacht building community. The jobs you’ve created, the purchases made from wages earned, the families you’ve supported, the sales tax benefits to the local yacht builder’s government...

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I’m sure Bezos plays substantial property taxes on his many homes.

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It is not.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Is Bezos a Climate Change Preacher / Shamer? I'd imagine a $400,000,000 Yacht would be quite the fossil fuel burner

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I think he donated $10 billion (Deductible) to some climate change foundation last year.

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I refuse to believe this is a real billboard.

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Small price to pay to keep them off his ass.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

For the hundreds/thousands of workers who constructed it and the firms that provided materials for it, they would certainly say it is good.

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I would rather have 400 yachts that cost $1million each.

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I’ve never had reason to doubt Commie on the Rez.

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Four. One for the Great Lakes, one for the Pacific, one for the Atlantic, and one for the Caribbean. 20 wave runners on each of them.

Dad is that you?

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Bad things billionaires do:
Buy a yacht.
Donate to charity.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!