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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:38 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Thank God. That’d have been an awful game to lose.

This.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:42 pm 
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now to take the mets as a huge favorite and make it a profitable day

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 pm 
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Giolito was ok. The post game keeps acting like it was some fantastic start.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:31 pm 
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Yeah 3 runs in 6 innings is fine. It's not ace stuff but sometimes you gotta take it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:55 pm 
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I guess I'll pick it up in the bottom of the third watch until they get the 7, then fast forward to the eighth on out.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:42 pm 
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Team of destiny

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:20 pm 
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Last time the Sox were 18 games over .500 was 2008

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:24 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Last time the Sox were 18 games over .500 was 2008


And this team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:02 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Last time the Sox were 18 games over .500 was 2008


And this team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet.

When you consider who is being added in August/September, this group has the potential to be the best Sox team of any of our lifetimes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:06 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Last time the Sox were 18 games over .500 was 2008


And this team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet.

When you consider who is being added in August/September, this group has the potential to be the best Sox team of any of our lifetimes.


Let's win the World Series first and let the debate begin. If only that 2005 team had a healthy Frank Thomas. All time great discussion.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:45 am 
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2005!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:28 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Last time the Sox were 18 games over .500 was 2008


And this team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet.

When you consider who is being added in August/September, this group has the potential to be the best Sox team of any of our lifetimes.


Podcast dropped today on the debate of 2005 vs. 2021 rotations.


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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:37 am 
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Sox Math is awful, and Jason Benetti is a virgin and a dork.

With all the injuries, a garbage dumpster bullpen, and a taxidermied corpse for a manager, they're not doing that badly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:58 am 
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Everything but the starting pitching and closer looks to be a mirage. And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.

But stacking wins is stacking wins. I'm for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:00 am 
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The pitching has been great, but the offense (Abreu specifically) is going to have to carry the weight at some point for a stretch of games.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:06 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Everything but the starting pitching and closer looks to be a mirage. And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.

But stacking wins is stacking wins. I'm for it.


Grandal gets on base though. The offense has been very good. Especially considering how many regulars are out.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:09 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Everything but the starting pitching and closer looks to be a mirage. And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.

But stacking wins is stacking wins. I'm for it.


Grandal gets on base though. The offense has been very good. Especially considering how many regulars are out.

That's my point. You got a .150 hitter leading the league in walks and an offense semi-decimated with injuries, yet still perform. The explanation? A mystical button pusher.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:12 am 
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Nardi wrote:
And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.



I've occasionally had discussion about whether a theoretical player who played twenty years without ever getting a hit but walked three times every game should be a Hall of Famer. Grandal is not far off from that player being actualized.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am 
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12 of those 21 hits are for extra bases

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:17 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.



I've occasionally had discussion about whether a theoretical player who played twenty years without ever getting a hit but walked three times every game should be a Hall of Famer. Grandal is not far off from that player being actualized.

He was incredibly fortunate to have pitchers nibble around during a 2 month slump. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:29 am 
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Quote:
2. Chicago White Sox
Record: 43-25
Previous ranking: 2

The Chicago White Sox have been dominating despite injuries

What all 30 MLB teams should do at the trade deadline
The upside of the news that Nick Madrigal's hamstring injury is a season-ender is that the White Sox at least know they need a rest-of-the-season solution at second base, not just a stopgap. In the short term, the White Sox will continue to use utility players Danny Mendick and Leury Garcia at the position. In the minors, the White Sox have veterans Marco Hernandez and Tim Beckham both playing for Triple-A Charlotte. One out-of-the-box idea is to move Yoan Moncada back to the keystone and recall prospect Jake Burger, who is hitting well in the minors. That notion probably causes more problems than it solves. Chicago is likely going to be attached to any middle infielder on the trade rumor mill, with the ideal fit being Pittsburgh's Adam Frazier, who offers a Madrigal-like skill set. -- Doolittle


Beat the Rays but still behind them per ESPN logic. Adam Frazier as a target is interesting.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/316 ... r-top-five

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:32 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
And Grandal is the poster boy. The man has 21 hits in 195 PAs. 10 of them dingers.



I've occasionally had discussion about whether a theoretical player who played twenty years without ever getting a hit but walked three times every game should be a Hall of Famer. Grandal is not far off from that player being actualized.

He was incredibly fortunate to have pitchers nibble around during a 2 month slump. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.



Obviously my theoretical player is an exaggeration. And there have been players whose stock has risen after their careers were in the books due to the modern fascination with the walk.

You raise an interesting point with your comment about "nibbling". For the first half of my life walks were considered something a pitcher gave rather than something a batter took. Then that got flipped on its head.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Obviously there are some batters who are better at reading the strike zone than others. There's a funny story about when Barry Bonds was a batting coach and Giancarlo Stanton asked him how to handle a late breaking slider. Bonds said, "You just don't swing at it." Thanks, Coach!

But if a pitcher is purposely less worried about putting you on base than he is about you making contact, is taking the walk really a victory? Stone likes to point out all the time how the top run producers will often go get pitches out of the zone.

Either you're scoring a run or driving one in. Otherwise what are you really doing? I'm not bashing a guy like Joey Votto, he was clearly a great offensive player. But when you're satisfied with talking that walk, you're putting the onus on some other guy to get the job done, and it's almost always going to be a guy who is paid less than Joey Votto.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:37 am 
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Seems like a Frank Thomas critique. Talking a walk puts pressure on the pitcher, and it's how the modern game is taught and played. It might be boring, but getting on base is something the Sox haven't done for years.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:45 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seems like a Frank Thomas critique. Talking a walk puts pressure on the pitcher, and it's how the modern game is taught and played. It might be boring, but getting on base is something the Sox haven't done for years.



I don't think Frank ever went to the plate looking to walk. In fact, it seemed like he was frustrated and he heard people complaining that he "walked too much" which caused him to expand his zone and made him less effective. I don't know that you can "walk too much", but there is a line in there where a pitch is a ball but still hittable and some guys can go get it and others are happy to take the walk.

Do you want your middle of the order guys looking for walks? I'm not sure. I don't think it's simple as ex post facto claiming Ferris Fain should be in the Hall of Fame.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
For the first half of my life walks were considered something a pitcher gave rather than something a batter took. Then that got flipped on its head.
Right, because it used to be when a pitcher got to a three ball count, he threw a fastball. It usually didn't matter what the situation was or who was at the dish. 3-0, 3-1, 3-2, a fastball was coming. So if the pitcher missed with a fastball, yeah thats on him.

Now guys are so comfortable throwing breaking stuff and offspeed pitches, that anything goes on a three ball count. This has been a recent change. Even as recent as the late 2000s, you were pretty much guaranteed a fastball on a three ball count.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Do you want your middle of the order guys looking for walks? I'm not sure. I don't think it's simple as ex post facto claiming Ferris Fain should be in the Hall of Fame.
I said this MANY times in the Rizzo v Abreu thread. IMU would chime in about how Rizzo's OPS was better, because he was taking walks. I said I would take a 1st basemen batting in the middle of my lineup who drives in runs 10 times out of 10 over a guy like Rizzo who didn't hit as many homers or drive in as many runs because he was concerned about his .350 OBP.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:55 am 
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Walks are more tolerable for a pitcher because Ks are more tolerable for a hitter.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:55 am 
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Would you rather have a hypothetical team full of guys that walked 90% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 10%, or hit home runs 25% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 75% of the time?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:06 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Would you rather have a hypothetical team full of guys that walked 90% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 10%, or hit home runs 25% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 75% of the time?


The former would be much better for producing runs, even though the latter would have a much better OPS.

If memory serves, the geeks have determined that OBP is 1.8 times as valuable as SLG.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:58 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Would you rather have a hypothetical team full of guys that walked 90% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 10%, or hit home runs 25% of the time and were automatic outs the remaining 75% of the time?


The former would be much better for producing runs, even though the latter would have a much better OPS.

If memory serves, the geeks have determined that OBP is 1.8 times as valuable as SLG.


If you forced me to choose between the JORR approach and the geek approach, I suppose I would have to trust that the geeks are smarter than I am, have put in the time, and have operated in good faith, and go with them. However, JORR's approach makes more intuitive sense. In a pressure-packed situation, a guy taking a walk always seemed a like a let down to me. Unless the bases are loaded, he's basically passing the job over to the next guy and saying "Here. You go ahead and win the game."


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