Can't argue any of that.

I disagree that they will lose 100 games (or a proportional amount if there is a work stoppage).

Their spend was still in the top quarter of MLB and they just blew out their payroll. The number I read somewhere (maybe here) was that they are under $70M for next year, with a third of that to Heyward. (I still think Heyward's issues come from when he got hit in the head with a pitch, some sort of vision/twitch thing.)

I find it inconceivable that once they understand the parameters of the labor stoppage, that they won't spend at least another $60M/year next year to get to $130M. They know what happens to Wrigley when the team is a 65-97 type team, the ballpark hollows out during the week and good Terrace Box tickets go on Stubhub for $20 consistently.

Before Covid, there were enough owners willing to just cancel the 2022 season to get a favorable CBA by starving the foreign players living on the fringes of the 40-man rosters, for whom even one full season of service time at $550k was generational wealth in their home countries. Now, I'm not so sure.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Their fans might have fancied the Cubs as a Yankees level franchise, but I think Theo and company were clear eyed enough to know that they weren't and that this free agent cliff was going to come regardless of what happened. Therefore, everyone who was looking at things through sober eyes knew there was at least going to be a retooling, if not a rebuild. If all of that is accurate, going to three straight NLCS' and winning the World Series was a pretty good rebuild result. In fact, if the Sox get that from their rebuild, I'll be ecstatic.

I hope you're right and the park is empty but I doubt it, I bet they win 70 games next year and draw over 2 million. They will spend the year after and be back in the playoffs.

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We dumped Fowler at the perfect time, you are a fucking moron.

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There are some things I’m an idiot fan about and some things I’m not. 5 years ago it was pretty clear that the Cubs dream scenario of Dodgers cable TV money, and the competitive advantage it was supposed to bring them when their contract was up was never going to materialize.

It's a very good starting pitching FA market this year.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Peoria Matt and a couple other guys are right...it's the pitching. You don't have to draft arms but you sure better acquire the right ones. Not making the right trade for Verlander and not ponying up for Mad Max doomed this team, because it also created the domino effect that became Quintana.

Bryant and Baez couldn't have been dealt in 2019, they had little value. At least Bryant ran his value back up a bit.

I said the day after the WS that they should trade Schwarber, because his value would never be higher and the guy was a butcher in LF. The return they could have got on that guy....

Too many pitching mistakes and overvaluing your talent. Bad 1-2 punch.

As a part of a set of season tickets, I can tell you the secondary market has been dead since 2017. And they were still good then. It got hot when they were at the initial capacity limits this season, and it's right back in the toilet the day they let everyone back in. It's going to get much much worse if they full rebuild. It will also kill their network. JORR is right, they're no longer loveable losers. You can't go back to 2015. Wrigley will be a half full stadium next season, assuming they even play.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

From an unbiased outside perspective, where it went wrong was when Theo held on to Schwarber and thus the move for Verlander fell apart. The Cubs probably at least make another World Series appearance if they had Verlander. Who knows if they win another or not, but an NLCS in 2015, WS in 2016, and another WS Appearance in 2017 or 2018 makes Theo's tenure looks worlds better. And the Cubs still might have Eloy.

Once that non-move was made, any dream of a dynasty or multiple championships went bye bye.


Counter point to recent posts, ok maybe the Cubs don't lose 100 games next season. Maybe they "only" lose 89 or 92 or 96 games. Point is they aren't likely to be very good for the rest of this season and next season.
Wrigley will always be mostly full. The team on the field doesn't matter a whole lot in terms of attendance. Sure there might be some late season games that are cold and windy where there are a lot of empty seats, but overall there will easily be 30K+ every home game from here on out at Wrigley.

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Add the collapse of Addison Russell

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It went wrong when the rest of the division and NL decided not to tank.

The bedrock of Cub success was a deferral on whole seasons by 3/5 of the division each year. This assured the Cub a division title and allowed them to set themselves up perfectly for the first round of the playoffs. It resulted in this unwarranted belief they were good "because they got to the NLCS". However, as soon as they saw real opponents they weren't even competitive.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

This was a big factor. Holding on to Schwarber is still a bigger problem, but for position players / hitters....this is easily #2.

They Heyward problem really didn't start to sting hard until 2018 and beyond (IMO).

Pitching as a whole really became an issue. They absolutely had to have Chapman to win in 2016 and that void never get filled. I recall the bullpen being really bad by 2018. You also had to live with expected declines by Lester and Lackey and the loss of Arrieta. They just didn't have that strong of a starting rotation.

The answer really was bad contracts by 2018. Big splash by signing Darvish and he turned out to be damaged.
1. Pitching
2. Schwarber
3. Addison Russell
4. The Heyward Contract
5. Underachievement by Bryant, Rizzo
6. Baez becoming mediocre at best.

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terrible pitching.

If we had good pitching, we'd still be in first place.

Remember we were in first place 6 weeks ago?

Remember 40 scoreless relief innings? Good starting pitching.

Even with this next "great" team, it's obvious the focus is on hitters, not pitching. Whatever pitching they got back is the same old middle-tier horseshit theyve been getting the last 4 years.

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If Arrieta hadn't found the fountain of youth in a syringe the rebuild would have been a failure

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The entire pr campaign behind The(o) Tank was ridiculously insulting, as if losing a lot of games was some stroke of genius.

Then Theo gets to walk on water out of town with his reputation intact rather than people recognizing that while he has had great moments, he also left both teams in shambles for others to clean up. He's like a president who enacts tax cuts during his administration that end when he leaves office.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

How about you Sox "fans" concentrate on supporting your awesome team?

Fucking pathetic attendance. I can't believe all the empty seats. You guys suck as a fan base.

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How about you keep your pompous arrogance out of the baseball threads.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

How about enjoying the Sox rather than trolling up the Cubs?

Sox "fans", as a whole, spend waaay too much time trying to troll the Cubs/Wrigley/Cubs attendance. Always was, always will be. Pathetic pudwhacks.

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Again, please keep your arrogance out of the baseball threads. Thanks.

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No arrogance here. Just an observation of a longstanding inferiority complex rearing it's childish head.

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Wrong.

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It's been shown that Sox fans are just as financially capable to attend as any Cub fan. So it's not means. Why not get out to the park and support a WS contender? Thousands upon thousands of empty seats. Too busy "owning" Cub fans I guess.

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White Sox attendance arguments...yawn.

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Im not proud

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They troll the Cubs cause they know their team will choke a dick, AGAIN in the postseason. They already have gotten their shit pushed in by good teams this year.

It's much more wise to talk about that than attendance.

How far do you think the Sox go in the playoffs this year?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!