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I truly do not understand modern liberalism if it's trust big pharma, ignore civil liberties, and don't question the government. The vaccine is a novel treatment that clearly isn't working as originally advertised or the CDC would not be shadow editing their website to change the definition of vaccine. Novel treatments are pure profit for big pharma so of course it's their self-interest to push them.

We are at more than half of the population vaccinated, and the significant portion with antibodies. Yet we are getting more restrictive. I fear corporate power over the individual. That used to be a liberal position. Now it's show your papers to work or participate in society. And if you think they are going to stop with it's just for this one time, don't forget this is from the people who said two weeks to flatten the curve.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

What does the underlined mean? I'm not following.

I don't see it as a culture war for me or part of any tribe. It's a personal decision. It's me on my own saying I don't want to be forced or my kids to be forced into getting this for lots of reasons. There are basic principles that are being violated here. I really don't care what anybody else does or doesn't do and I feel bad for any negative consequences suffered as a result of the choices that really aren't great options. It's really sad what's going on.

I don’t know. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough about it. I just don’t fret and worry over every little thing. Maybe the issue is that life is just too public now.

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It means that despite whatever cherry-picking conservatives do to maintain their anti-vaccine and anti-The Libs stance, the vaccines do work in mitigating infections and keeping people out of the hospital. If you don't want to be seriously ill, you're better off vaccinated than unvaccinated.

And it absolutely is a culture war. Suddenly there are all these middle-class moms talking about protecting their babies from the scourge of modernity like they're religious extremists. There was always the one kid in 6th grade who was opted out of the hepatitis shots because his parents thought there was an 11th commandment that said "thou shalt not inject inert viral material." Now that's just like the third of the country that always votes Republican.

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There are a lot of black, hispanic and young people aren't vaccinated - they probably aren't conservative.

I don't know what to believe anymore. There's never been good data and nobody is truthful or honest. It's a big pile of shit. Do you have the statistics on all of it? I'd like to read what you are reading.

The chances of being seriously ill are negligible with or without this vaccine .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I feel there are a lot of unanswered questions and there is no interest in answering those questions unless the answer is just get the vaccine which is weird.

FWIW, you’re obviously correct.

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There are some questions. What part of the problem is no matter what the answer to those questions are, even if they're rooted in common sense or science, you still question them. No answer is ever good enough for you. You will probably never get the vaccine, unless like you said a few pages ago something actually happens to your children covid related. That's probably the only thing that will ever change your mind at this point.

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That’s your feelings talking. Maybe if I got some rational or logical answers with actual trustable data I’d change my mind. Maybe if things were at all consistent it would be different. That’s not what we’ve had this past year and it’s continuing.

You can say what you want, but you have demonstrated that nothing short of one of your immediate family members getting pretty ill* with covid is ever going to change your mind with this vaccine. And even then, it wouldn't surprise me if you still go unvaccinated.

Which is just fine if that's your choice.

*edit typo

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Not sure it would make them prettier. We know people that have had COVID, we know 1 that died, we might have had it don’t know.

I might never get vaccinated, but they are doing everything they can to keep it that way. There is no reason to trust anything.

And it doesn’t seem fine, at least as far as that it’s my choice. It seems to be a huge problem for others and I’m not even sure why. This shit is never ending even when they’ve said there is an end point. And then it just gets crazier. What the fuck are we doing and why?

No reason to trust anything?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

8 years of dealing with the medical system almost killed me. I didnt get better until i gave up and went rogue. Obviously that's not the answer for everything, but it did work for me in this case. I saved my life. They tried to kill me. SO, do I have hesitance about the vaccines? you god damn right i do.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

the working poor class (young) is directly threatening the wealthy (old) with their scary virus. this is not acceptable. they control the media, they own the corporations, and they pay congress. it's easy to see what 'we' are doing.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

did you question all the other vaccines you and your kids got this hard? seems like the possible long haul effects of getting covid are worse than whatever imagined long term effects of the vaccine may have

Seems like a pretty natural reaction to me. What's not a good thing about it?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Nailed it

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Without the vaccine the chances of being seriously ill raise significantly. This isn't disputed at all at this point by anyone with any credibility.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What are the chances of being seriously ill with and without a COVID shot?

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I think pretty low. But still significantly higher for those without the shot. Also, seems worth noting that the unvaxxed are almost exclusively the ones taking up all the ICU beds, causing shit like this to happen

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-h ... e-illness/

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm at the point where I say treat the unvaxxed Covid patient if capacity is there, but when we hit capacity like that, triage decision should be to pull the plug on the unvaxxed patient to make the bed available for the other patient.

If you want to remain unvaxxed fine, but then don't expect a hospital bed to be made available for you if others need care.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Even in Israel? (Where 80% of the population is vaxxed)

Seems reasonable to me.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ironic, coming from a self-admitting chain smoker like yourself.

I'm not a chain smoker, just a smoker. If all the smokers were the ones dying in hospitals and filling up beds and non smokers couldnt get normal treatment, you may actually have a point though.

Besides, you're vaxxed Bobby. You'll be taken care of since you made the responsible choice. Good for you!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The VAST majority of people who get Covid dont even know they have it or have mild symptoms. With or without the vaccine. That isnt even disputable. Thus negligible. Like I said.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.