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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:58 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I've heard Ditka by those who would know described in the exact same terms and worse. And the NFL's hiring history suggests that it's pretty widespread.


That's not shocking...especially given Ditka's age and era. Plus we all knew he was a right wing lunatic years ago.

I'm not trying to excuse anything. The era's are what they are. Can't go back and rewrite history. But there's nothing wrong with the current era being held to a higher standard than those in the past.

The excuses of it being "locker room talk, etc" are just sad and pathetic at this point. But also to be expected from many.

Agreed. But when you get a Joe Judge, Nick Sirianni or Kliff Kingsbury getting hc jobs with limited coaching experience and no playing experience, not to mention hapless general managers it's impossible not to look at the league with a skeptical eye.


Fair. Kingsbury did have 11 years combined as an assistant under the Belichick tree, and he was the coach at Texas Tech when Mahomes was there to some degree of success, for a middling program in the Big 12. Judge and Sirianni were far more unknown quantities when they got hired.

I think it's sad when some really good minority coaches get a shot, but then don't actually get the shot to succeed from owners who are in a win now mode. I think of guys with longevity like Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Herm Edwards, Marvin Lewis, all who had varying degrees of success, but had the backing to succeed.

Guys like Anthony Lynn and Steve Wilks were given just enough rope to hang themselves (no pun intended), but that speaks to a larger problem in the league.


Wilks was really screwed IIRC. I believe that he only got 1 year.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I've heard Ditka by those who would know described in the exact same terms and worse. And the NFL's hiring history suggests that it's pretty widespread.


That's not shocking...especially given Ditka's age and era. Plus we all knew he was a right wing lunatic years ago.

I'm not trying to excuse anything. The era's are what they are. Can't go back and rewrite history. But there's nothing wrong with the current era being held to a higher standard than those in the past.

The excuses of it being "locker room talk, etc" are just sad and pathetic at this point. But also to be expected from many.

Agreed. But when you get a Joe Judge, Nick Sirianni or Kliff Kingsbury getting hc jobs with limited coaching experience and no playing experience, not to mention hapless general managers it's impossible not to look at the league with a skeptical eye.


Fair. Kingsbury did have 11 years combined as an assistant under the Belichick tree, and he was the coach at Texas Tech when Mahomes was there to some degree of success, for a middling program in the Big 12. Judge and Sirianni were far more unknown quantities when they got hired.

I think it's sad when some really good minority coaches get a shot, but then don't actually get the shot to succeed from owners who are in a win now mode. I think of guys with longevity like Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Herm Edwards, Marvin Lewis, all who had varying degrees of success, but had the backing to succeed.

Guys like Anthony Lynn and Steve Wilks were given just enough rope to hang themselves (no pun intended), but that speaks to a larger problem in the league.


Wilks was really screwed IIRC. I believe that he only got 1 year.


That sounds right. He was handed a rookie QB that wasn't game ready and the fragile glass body of Sam Bradford. That defense was legitimately good, though. Remember the fits they gave the Bears in week 3?

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:06 am 
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denisdman wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I've heard Ditka by those who would know described in the exact same terms and worse. And the NFL's hiring history suggests that it's pretty widespread.


That's not shocking...especially given Ditka's age and era. Plus we all knew he was a right wing lunatic years ago.

I'm not trying to excuse anything. The era's are what they are. Can't go back and rewrite history. But there's nothing wrong with the current era being held to a higher standard than those in the past.

The excuses of it being "locker room talk, etc" are just sad and pathetic at this point. But also to be expected from many.


This is pretty fair. I think most of us have grown up and seen this transition first hand. And what I mean by that, is that my parents (around 70) still hold thoughts and say things akin to what Gruden wrote. I think most of us probably used the term burrito quite a bit in our younger years. But then with our children you never hear any such slights towards other races and orientations. In fact their classmates were sufficiently diverse that they do not even think twice about mixing with other races.

I wish we could stop trying to erase history. Let’s use it as a learning lesson. Columbus is a perfect example. Imperialism and conquering was a way of life in his day. We cannot judge what he did by today’s standards. We have to recognize crossing the ocean was a really big deal back then. Everything that happened after was just what explorers did.


Pretty much. The erasing of history is the worst part of it. I do think that as we learn more and evolve, the view of history will become more diversified. We are learning new things about how other cultures were affected by things that were mostly whitewashed in the past. I see no issue with that aspect. If anything, it helps teach our kids empathy. I know there were words in my past that were commonly used (retard, burrito, etc) that I cringe when I think about now. But as I've gotten older, I've gotten to experience and embrace other cultures that I didn't know anything about other than parody or stereotyping. That's made me a better person (I'm still an asshole, though). It's a maturation process that sadly, many don't go through.

There should be no shame in enjoying things of the past for what they were. Hell, Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies of all time. It could probably never be made today, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:08 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have a feeling this leak is going to end up making Gruden some money and he won't be the last person fired because of this matter.


I'm not so sure he's going to profit from it anytime soon outside of his settlement. I find it interesting that the NFL is investigating the WFT, and out of 650k emails, the NFL decided to focus on 100 emails from a guy who has never been a member of the organization. Nothing from the Snyders? Nothing from any other WFT employee?


I was referencing that I think he has a claim against the league. He wrote it so he is not defamed but I think they had some duty with the material. I could be wrong. A judge will probably want to speak to the attorneys about this as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:08 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have a feeling this leak is going to end up making Gruden some money and he won't be the last person fired because of this matter.


You have to figure there are a lot of other worried owners and executives around the NFL right now. But will Roger leak those out? Only if you cross him.


The leak may bring about the end of Goodell. It not only brings the league into disrepute, it destroys confidence in the league administrative offices.


I hate this cancel culture stuff, but it's not really that hard to avoid calling someone a faggo.t via a work owned communication platform.

Weren't MANY of these emails from when Gruden was out of the league?


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:10 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:


The moral authority has spoken.


Considering the racist (African-American males are wang whippers, African-American females are wildebeests), sexist (I can't concentrate on what she's saying because of her giant boobies), and homophobic (Count Fagula) things Bernstein has said over the years you would think he would keep his mouth shut and hope no one decides to speak to his manager, sponsors, etc.

He's such a virtue signaling fraud.


No one has brought up the hypocrisy angle yet. Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention because MANY have not considered this.


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:11 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have a feeling this leak is going to end up making Gruden some money and he won't be the last person fired because of this matter.


I'm not so sure he's going to profit from it anytime soon outside of his settlement. I find it interesting that the NFL is investigating the WFT, and out of 650k emails, the NFL decided to focus on 100 emails from a guy who has never been a member of the organization. Nothing from the Snyders? Nothing from any other WFT employee?


I was referencing that I think he has a claim against the league. He wrote it so he is not defamed but I think they had some duty with the material. I could be wrong. A judge will probably want to speak to the attorneys about this as well.

I think his biggest claim will be that he got fired for something while he was working for ESPN. It's like if Urban Meyer got fired from Jacksonville because of something he did at OSU.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:12 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have a feeling this leak is going to end up making Gruden some money and he won't be the last person fired because of this matter.


You have to figure there are a lot of other worried owners and executives around the NFL right now. But will Roger leak those out? Only if you cross him.


The leak may bring about the end of Goodell. It not only brings the league into disrepute, it destroys confidence in the league administrative offices.


I hate this cancel culture stuff, but it's not really that hard to avoid calling someone a faggo.t via a work owned communication platform.

Weren't MANY of these emails from when Gruden was out of the league?


While working at ESPN, was he really out of the league, especially considering they're one of the broadcast partners?

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:13 am 
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OJ murdered two people and yet Jon Gruden is the one that loses his job. Pretty sick if you think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:13 am 
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Is Art Shell available? Hiring Dusty worked out for the Astros.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:20 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
denisdman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have a feeling this leak is going to end up making Gruden some money and he won't be the last person fired because of this matter.


You have to figure there are a lot of other worried owners and executives around the NFL right now. But will Roger leak those out? Only if you cross him.


The leak may bring about the end of Goodell. It not only brings the league into disrepute, it destroys confidence in the league administrative offices.


I hate this cancel culture stuff, but it's not really that hard to avoid calling someone a faggo.t via a work owned communication platform.

Weren't MANY of these emails from when Gruden was out of the league?


While working at ESPN, was he really out of the league, especially considering they're one of the broadcast partners?

It's debatable, I lean towards broadcasting being "out of the league", but whatever. The point is, Gruden wasn't sending these emails from an NFL- or team-owned email address, and that's not how they were hack...err leaked to the media. Unless he was sending these messages from an email address provided by ESPN, and they found the content appalling and leaked it, but I don't think that's the case. CB's point seems nonsensical then, unless it was "don't send stupid shit to your buddy at his @nfl.com email address", in which case nevermind.


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:22 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

It's debatable, I lean towards broadcasting being "out of the league", but whatever. The point is, Gruden wasn't sending these emails from an NFL- or team-owned email address, and that's not how they were hack...err leaked to the media. Unless he was sending these messages from an email address provided by ESPN, and they found the content appalling and leaked it, but I don't think that's the case. CB's point seems nonsensical then, unless it was "don't send stupid shit to your buddy at his @nfl.com email address", in which case nevermind.


I think this is part of what the feds got when they were looking into the Redskins' trainers drug thing. And the feeling I get is that at a bare minimum, he sent them to a team owned email address (Bruce Allen).

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am 
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Is Art Shell available? Hiring Dusty worked out for the Astros.

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am 
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Let's make it easier. Gruden will get paid because the NFL isn't going to want there to be a public suit in regards to this for the same reason they really wish the WFT would have just paid this to go away originally.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:24 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:36 am 
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Brick wrote:
Let's make it easier. Gruden will get paid because the NFL isn't going to want there to be a public suit in regards to this for the same reason they really wish the WFT would have just paid this to go away originally.


Discovery phase!!?!???!


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:49 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I've heard Ditka by those who would know described in the exact same terms and worse. And the NFL's hiring history suggests that it's pretty widespread.


That's not shocking...especially given Ditka's age and era. Plus we all knew he was a right wing lunatic years ago.

I'm not trying to excuse anything. The era's are what they are. Can't go back and rewrite history. But there's nothing wrong with the current era being held to a higher standard than those in the past.

The excuses of it being "locker room talk, etc" are just sad and pathetic at this point. But also to be expected from many.


This is pretty fair. I think most of us have grown up and seen this transition first hand. And what I mean by that, is that my parents (around 70) still hold thoughts and say things akin to what Gruden wrote. I think most of us probably used the term burrito quite a bit in our younger years. But then with our children you never hear any such slights towards other races and orientations. In fact their classmates were sufficiently diverse that they do not even think twice about mixing with other races.

I wish we could stop trying to erase history. Let’s use it as a learning lesson. Columbus is a perfect example. Imperialism and conquering was a way of life in his day. We cannot judge what he did by today’s standards. We have to recognize crossing the ocean was a really big deal back then. Everything that happened after was just what explorers did.


Pretty much. The erasing of history is the worst part of it. I do think that as we learn more and evolve, the view of history will become more diversified. We are learning new things about how other cultures were affected by things that were mostly whitewashed in the past. I see no issue with that aspect. If anything, it helps teach our kids empathy. I know there were words in my past that were commonly used (genius, burrito, etc) that I cringe when I think about now. But as I've gotten older, I've gotten to experience and embrace other cultures that I didn't know anything about other than parody or stereotyping. That's made me a better person (I'm still an asshole, though). It's a maturation process that sadly, many don't go through.

There should be no shame in enjoying things of the past for what they were. Hell, Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies of all time. It could probably never be made today, unfortunately.

I cannot disagree with any of this. But that's always been good educators and open people's point. There are volumes of things we all have learned from experiences of people outside of their original circles. And more yet to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:51 am 
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Nas wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
I've heard Ditka by those who would know described in the exact same terms and worse. And the NFL's hiring history suggests that it's pretty widespread.


That's not shocking...especially given Ditka's age and era. Plus we all knew he was a right wing lunatic years ago.

I'm not trying to excuse anything. The era's are what they are. Can't go back and rewrite history. But there's nothing wrong with the current era being held to a higher standard than those in the past.

The excuses of it being "locker room talk, etc" are just sad and pathetic at this point. But also to be expected from many.

Agreed. But when you get a Joe Judge, Nick Sirianni or Kliff Kingsbury getting hc jobs with limited coaching experience and no playing experience, not to mention hapless general managers it's impossible not to look at the league with a skeptical eye.


Fair. Kingsbury did have 11 years combined as an assistant under the Belichick tree, and he was the coach at Texas Tech when Mahomes was there to some degree of success, for a middling program in the Big 12. Judge and Sirianni were far more unknown quantities when they got hired.

I think it's sad when some really good minority coaches get a shot, but then don't actually get the shot to succeed from owners who are in a win now mode. I think of guys with longevity like Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Herm Edwards, Marvin Lewis, all who had varying degrees of success, but had the backing to succeed.

Guys like Anthony Lynn and Steve Wilks were given just enough rope to hang themselves (no pun intended), but that speaks to a larger problem in the league.


Wilks was really screwed IIRC. I believe that he only got 1 year.


Theyll be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:55 am 
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Steve Wilks? That guy is a clueless clown. Look up what he’s doing these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:02 am 
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Steve Wilks? That guy is a clueless clown. Look up what he’s doing these days.
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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:02 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:08 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:


Julie DiCaro wrote:
Are we really shocked that a that a white man who makes his money off the battering of Black bodies is a racist?


What does that even mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:12 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:


Quote:
For the decades that I’ve been a football fan, I’ve watched men in positions of power in the NFL overlook the harm they and their players cause to those around them because of football. Football trumps domestic abuse. Football trumps sexual assault. Football trumps child abuse. Football trumps and even excuses racism. Football demands you keep playing with a concussion, a broken neck, a cracked spine, your quality of life after the game be damned. Football must be fed, appeased, prioritized over all else.


Seems like she should stop being a fan of football.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:16 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

It's debatable, I lean towards broadcasting being "out of the league", but whatever. The point is, Gruden wasn't sending these emails from an NFL- or team-owned email address, and that's not how they were hack...err leaked to the media. Unless he was sending these messages from an email address provided by ESPN, and they found the content appalling and leaked it, but I don't think that's the case. CB's point seems nonsensical then, unless it was "don't send stupid shit to your buddy at his @nfl.com email address", in which case nevermind.


I think this is part of what the feds got when they were looking into the Redskins' trainers drug thing. And the feeling I get is that at a bare minimum, he sent them to a team owned email address (Bruce Allen).

Ron Rivera must be worried. He brought the trainer with him from Carolina.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:17 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

It's debatable, I lean towards broadcasting being "out of the league", but whatever. The point is, Gruden wasn't sending these emails from an NFL- or team-owned email address, and that's not how they were hack...err leaked to the media. Unless he was sending these messages from an email address provided by ESPN, and they found the content appalling and leaked it, but I don't think that's the case. CB's point seems nonsensical then, unless it was "don't send stupid shit to your buddy at his @nfl.com email address", in which case nevermind.


I think this is part of what the feds got when they were looking into the Redskins' trainers drug thing. And the feeling I get is that at a bare minimum, he sent them to a team owned email address (Bruce Allen).

Ron Rivera must be worried. He brought the trainer with him from Carolina.


Did he? It's also entirely possible he didn't know anything about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:17 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:


Julie DiCaro wrote:
Are we really shocked that a that a white man who makes his money off the battering of Black bodies is a racist?


What does that even mean?


Black baby batter bukkake, obviously.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:19 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

It's debatable, I lean towards broadcasting being "out of the league", but whatever. The point is, Gruden wasn't sending these emails from an NFL- or team-owned email address, and that's not how they were hack...err leaked to the media. Unless he was sending these messages from an email address provided by ESPN, and they found the content appalling and leaked it, but I don't think that's the case. CB's point seems nonsensical then, unless it was "don't send stupid shit to your buddy at his @nfl.com email address", in which case nevermind.


I think this is part of what the feds got when they were looking into the Redskins' trainers drug thing. And the feeling I get is that at a bare minimum, he sent them to a team owned email address (Bruce Allen).

Ron Rivera must be worried. He brought the trainer with him from Carolina.


Did he? It's also entirely possible he didn't know anything about it.

It's what's being reported. I hope he reasonably didn't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:22 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:


What a compelling thought by JDC:

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. It’s time to change our framework for what a “football guy” is.”

Now, isn’t her Twitter posting a perfect example of this?

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:29 am 
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So it looks like the content of the emails is not the main story here, no? This appears to be someone manipulating the cancel climate to advance an agenda against Gruden.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Gruden Cancelled
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:31 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Steve Wilks? That guy is a clueless clown. Look up what he’s doing these days.

Definitely more than you are with your life.


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