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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:21 am 
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Regarding the team quitting, I found it odd that Mack, Hicks, Robinson, Jackson, and Trevathan were all out. Maybe it's just bad luck that all of these "leaders" are hurt simultaneously...or they looked at the situation and are making business decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:23 am 
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all of that is logical and correct.

However, based on the limited press that George has done, I personally don't think he's getting fired. I think he gets one more year to "prove" himself because of the gift of a rookie QB.

They'll win Thursday and run off a few more and George will once more marvel at the turnaround, saying what he needs to say publically because he's backed this guy privately at the end of last year and won't go back on his word.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:26 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Brick wrote:
Nas wrote:
It's amazing how the media and fans turned on Nagy in 2 months. They were still blowing him this summer because he identified Fields and he was going to get to develop someone who didn't suck like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. By Week 2 they started calling for his job.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was an easy scapegoat even though almost all the success the Bears had was with him playing well. He wasn't Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson so it was easy to say he was the one at fault. The Bears got a "better" quarterback in Dalton and Fields and the Bears are a worse team so they know they were taken down the primrose path.


(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky riding in on his white horse late last year is very likely the reason Nagy still has a job. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn't coming through that door this year and Fields is still not ready.

The same things that I strongly criticized Nagy for in 2018 and 2019 were dismissed because (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was the problem. The media and MANY at CFMB said that Nagy couldn't work with (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky because (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is dumb. The media said Nagy found Mahomes and knows what a good quarterback looks like and he should be allowed to draft and develop a quarterback of his choosing.

The media spent the spring and summer blowing Nagy for the Fields pick. They were excited about him getting the opportunity to develop his guy. Then they inexplicably turned on Nagy before Justin Fields had even started 1 game. They began using the very criticisms of Nagy that they dismissed for 3 years while (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was here to demand that he be fired.


You spent the offseason and the early part of this season telling us that Nagy was a good head coach and shouldn't be fired.


I stand by my comments that he is a good head coach based on the fact that the team is always behind him and they haven't quit. That's tough to do. Especially when you have losing streaks. I've said for over 3 years that Nagy sucks calling plays and that he was a bigger problem than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. If what I saw as Nagy's incompetence wasn't enough to fire him last year, he has done nothing this year to lose his job.

Nagy is playing a rookie quarterback who still isn't the best quarterback on the team. That rookie has made a lot of progress from Week 2. While playing a far tougher schedule than Mac Jones.


His team is sloppy (offensive execution, not just playcalling is frequently terrible), undisciplined and seems only intermittently interested in playing hard. And Nagy's inflexibility on offense suggests that he is hampering Fields development more than he is facilitating it. He is not a good head coach.

I would also add that good teachers and coaches design lessons and schemes that meet students/players on their own terms. Nagy has proven--with two young quarterbacks--to be incapable of doing so. Rather than putting his players in a position to succeed by maximizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses, his coaching puts his players in a position where they are likely to fail by minimizing strengths and maximizing weaknesses.
I don't think he's been inflexible with Fields. We've seen a lot of new concepts since Fields has taken over. The biggest gripe that I have is there is still no coherence with the play calling. Not surprising because Lazor isn't a good play caller either. He's better than Nagy, but still mediocre at best. Fields' accuracy and decision making is questionable at times. Things I expect from a rookie with shitty receivers.

Edit: Nagy has proven with all of his quarterbacks that he's incapable of making good offensive decisions that benefit the team he currently has and not the Chiefs roster that he clearly wishes he had.

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Last edited by Nas on Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:27 am 
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brad biggs was amusing this morning on screamy & vanilla... you can tell he's had enough of watching this crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:28 am 
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I just noticed that despite the loss, the Bears actually improved from the 2nd-worst to the 3rd-worst team in the NFC, by virtue of Seattle also losing and their loss being within the division/conference.

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Last edited by Jaw Breaker on Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:29 am 
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The Bears will also lose to Seattle.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:29 am 
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Nas wrote:



I stand by my comments that he is a good head coach based on the fact that the team is always behind him and they haven't quit. That's tough to do. Especially when you have losing streaks. I've said for over 3 years that Nagy sucks calling plays and that he was a bigger problem than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.


I think this is contradictory - a HC is usually a subject matter expert at either offense or defense and hires coordinators to execute his vision for both sides of the ball. He's responsible for the performance of those coordinators and then is also responsible, like you said, for building the morale of the team and holding everything together by demonstrating advanced leadership skills. So that's two things at least - performance and morale.

I agree with you on morale. It looks like we also agree on performance (it sucks). But where we differ is you have assigned more weight to morale when it should be equal with performance. We could hire Dave Chappelle to be HC and I'm sure the guys would like him but the performance would suck. Similarly we could have some AI-infused bot call plays and I'm sure the offense would look better but the bot would suck at building morale. It has to be both. That's why Trestman sucked, he was technically competent at X's and O's but a terrible leader of men. Lovie excelled at technical competence and leadership. Nagy is incompetent when it comes to 50% of his responsibiliities. Therefore, he must go.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:31 am 
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And Nas, the Bears have quit. Look at the injury report. Those guys don't wanna be there.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:31 am 
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At this point, I'm not sure I can blame them.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:32 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
The Bears will also lose to Seattle.


They are an interesting team, and while the Bears are a complete shit show, Seattle illustrates that you can have one of the best QBs, all-pro receivers, a good coach...and still suck.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:36 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:



I stand by my comments that he is a good head coach based on the fact that the team is always behind him and they haven't quit. That's tough to do. Especially when you have losing streaks. I've said for over 3 years that Nagy sucks calling plays and that he was a bigger problem than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.


I think this is contradictory - a HC is usually a subject matter expert at either offense or defense and hires coordinators to execute his vision for both sides of the ball. He's responsible for the performance of those coordinators and then is also responsible, like you said, for building the morale of the team and holding everything together by demonstrating advanced leadership skills. So that's two things at least - performance and morale.

I agree with you on morale. It looks like we also agree on performance (it sucks). But where we differ is you have assigned more weight to morale when it should be equal with performance. We could hire Dave Chappelle to be HC and I'm sure the guys would like him but the performance would suck. Similarly we could have some AI-infused bot call plays and I'm sure the offense would look better but the bot would suck at building morale. It has to be both. That's why Trestman sucked, he was technically competent at X's and O's but a terrible leader of men. Lovie excelled at technical competence and leadership. Nagy is incompetent when it comes to 50% of his responsibiliities. Therefore, he must go.


I guess I should have said Nagy is a good leader of men. I viewed his role as similar to the one Fox played and Harbaugh plays now. Hire competent coordinators and get out of the way. His inability to give up his dream to be a play caller has really hurt the team.

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Last edited by Nas on Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:39 am 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:



I stand by my comments that he is a good head coach based on the fact that the team is always behind him and they haven't quit. That's tough to do. Especially when you have losing streaks. I've said for over 3 years that Nagy sucks calling plays and that he was a bigger problem than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.


I think this is contradictory - a HC is usually a subject matter expert at either offense or defense and hires coordinators to execute his vision for both sides of the ball. He's responsible for the performance of those coordinators and then is also responsible, like you said, for building the morale of the team and holding everything together by demonstrating advanced leadership skills. So that's two things at least - performance and morale.

I agree with you on morale. It looks like we also agree on performance (it sucks). But where we differ is you have assigned more weight to morale when it should be equal with performance. We could hire Dave Chappelle to be HC and I'm sure the guys would like him but the performance would suck. Similarly we could have some AI-infused bot call plays and I'm sure the offense would look better but the bot would suck at building morale. It has to be both. That's why Trestman sucked, he was technically competent at X's and O's but a terrible leader of men. Lovie excelled at technical competence and leadership. Nagy is incompetent when it comes to 50% of his responsibiliities. Therefore, he must go.


I guess I should have said Nagy is a good leader of men. I viewed his role as similar to the one Fox played and Harbaugh plays now. Hire a competent coordinators and get out of the way. His inability to give up his dream to be a play caller has really hurt the team.


Yes but they managed to also create an identity on both sides of the ball and make a difference. Look at what the Ravens did with Jackson - completely restructuring the Flacco-inspired playbook to fit Jackson's strengths. That kind of basic execution is light years ahead of what Nagy is capable of doing. If you're that incompetent then you just shouldn't be allowed in the building.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:43 am 
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Nas wrote:
I don't think he's been inflexible with Fields. We've seen a lot of new concepts since Fields has taken over. The biggest gripe that I have is there is still no coherence with the play calling. Not surprising because Lazor isn't a good play caller either. He's better than Nagy, but still mediocre at best. Fields' accuracy and decision making is questionable at times. Things I expect from a rookie with shitty receivers.

Edit: Nagy has proven with all of his quarterbacks that he's incapable of making good offensive decisions that benefit the team he currently has and not the Chiefs roster that he clearly wishes he had.



I think there is some truth to your statement that Nagy has introduced some new concepts with Floyd. The problem is that he doesn't stick with them. He coaches reactively, out of desperation, rather than proactively developing an identity based on the strengths of his players.

And yeah, I know Lazor is a bad coordinator, too. I was the one who repeatedly told you that when you claimed Nagy's hire of Lazor was a good sign regarding Nagy's coaching and the future of the offense. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:45 am 
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Quote:
Nagy is a good leader of men.


Yet those men don't want to follow him into battle. They would rather start their winter vacation a month+ early.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:49 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't think he's been inflexible with Fields. We've seen a lot of new concepts since Fields has taken over. The biggest gripe that I have is there is still no coherence with the play calling. Not surprising because Lazor isn't a good play caller either. He's better than Nagy, but still mediocre at best. Fields' accuracy and decision making is questionable at times. Things I expect from a rookie with shitty receivers.

Edit: Nagy has proven with all of his quarterbacks that he's incapable of making good offensive decisions that benefit the team he currently has and not the Chiefs roster that he clearly wishes he had.



I think there is some truth to your statement that Nagy has introduced some new concepts with Floyd. The problem is that he doesn't stick with them. He coaches reactively, out of desperation, rather than proactively developing an identity based on the strengths of his players.

And yeah, I know Lazor is a bad coordinator, too. I was the one who repeatedly told you that when you claimed Nagy's hire of Lazor was a good sign regarding Nagy's coaching and the future of the offense. :wink:


I think this best sums up Nagy the offensive coach since about Week 11 of the 2018 season. It got dramatically worse after Parkey missed that kick.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Currently, the Dolphins (#13 in AFC) and the Jets (#14 in AFC) are in a better position to make the playoffs than the Bears (#15 in NFC.) The only team behind the Bears in the NFC standings are the winless Lions.

Pathetic.
The 2-8 Texans now have an easier road to the playoffs than the Bears do :lol:

Yet somehow the Bears leapfrogged the Seahawks in the NFC

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:56 pm 
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Nas wrote:
It got dramatically worse after the kicker outscored his offense.


FTFY


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:58 pm 
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I can't believe Nas is dying on the Nagy hill.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Nas typically can be found on the wrong side of history.

Biden, Clinton, Grossman, Nagy.

If you exemplify the Peter Principle, chances are Nas is your champion.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:13 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Nas wrote:
It got dramatically worse after the kicker outscored his offense.


FTFY
While you're correct in demanding more points from the offense, that Eagles game, yesterday's game, and even last week's game were very similar in one aspect. Forget the overall scores for a second...

-Yesterday, the Bears held a 4 point lead with 1:41 to play.
-Last week, the Bears held a two point lead with 1:46 to play.
-Eagles playoff game, Bears held a 5 point lead with 4:46 left to play.

Two of those three games were at Solider Field against a backup QB. It's not an out of this world expectation to ask your defense to stop a backup quarterback from leading a late game touchdown drive. I don't care if the score is 44-40 or 7-3, the defense has to be able to hold and close a game out once in a while.

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Nas wrote:
It got dramatically worse after the kicker outscored his offense.


FTFY
While you're correct in demanding more points from the offense, that Eagles game yesterday's game, and even last week's game were very similar in one aspect. Forget the overall scores for a second...

-Yesterday, the Bears held a 4 point lead with 1:41 to play.
-Last week, the Bears held a two point lead with 1:46 to play.
-Eagles playoff game, Bears held a 5 point lead with 4:46 left to play.

Two of those three games were at Solider Field against a backup QB. It's not an out of this world expectation to ask your defense to stop a backup quarterback from leading a late game touchdown drive. I don't care if the score is 44-40 or 7-3, the defense has to be able to hold and close a game out once in a while.


I could not possibly agree more.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:20 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I can't believe Nas is dying on the Nagy hill.


:evil: :twisted: :pig:

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:22 pm 
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I'll also add that the failure in those 3 games is part poor coaching, including the penalties which is coaching and discipline, part lack of execution.

And on the flip side, two teams playing with their backup QB come into your building and you hold them to 16 points a piece? Yeah, outside of crazy weather or something really out of the ordinary, you better go 2-0.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:27 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I can't believe Nas is dying on the Nagy hill.


He's doing a "bit"


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Right. Nas is pretending to be a dumbass. What's your excuse?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Right. Nas is pretending to be a dumbass. What's your excuse?


Get lost, loser
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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:56 pm 
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Bob fails to see the irony in his use of an ankle biter gif.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:49 pm 
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That guy is on Parkins and Spiegs and sounds like he's full of shit

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:53 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:



I stand by my comments that he is a good head coach based on the fact that the team is always behind him and they haven't quit. That's tough to do. Especially when you have losing streaks. I've said for over 3 years that Nagy sucks calling plays and that he was a bigger problem than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.


I think this is contradictory - a HC is usually a subject matter expert at either offense or defense and hires coordinators to execute his vision for both sides of the ball. He's responsible for the performance of those coordinators and then is also responsible, like you said, for building the morale of the team and holding everything together by demonstrating advanced leadership skills. So that's two things at least - performance and morale.

I agree with you on morale. It looks like we also agree on performance (it sucks). But where we differ is you have assigned more weight to morale when it should be equal with performance. We could hire Dave Chappelle to be HC and I'm sure the guys would like him but the performance would suck. Similarly we could have some AI-infused bot call plays and I'm sure the offense would look better but the bot would suck at building morale. It has to be both. That's why Trestman sucked, he was technically competent at X's and O's but a terrible leader of men. Lovie excelled at technical competence and leadership. Nagy is incompetent when it comes to 50% of his responsibiliities. Therefore, he must go.


I guess I should have said Nagy is a good leader of men. I viewed his role as similar to the one Fox played and Harbaugh plays now. Hire competent coordinators and get out of the way. His inability to give up his dream to be a play caller has really hurt the team.


The fact that the team hasn't openly revolted against Nagy hardly makes him a good leader. His teams are sloppy, undisciplined and intermittently lackadaisical. This suggests that he has preempted mutiny by being easy to get along with and "sympathetic" to his players. He is not a leader; he is a salesman.

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