Ball is clearly a starter in this league. That's not really up for debate, the NBA has proven that to us.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ben Simmons quit on his team in that series. Say what you want about Lonzo but he certainly doesnt strike me as the type of guy to quit on his team.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That has no bearing on whether he can make the shots he needs to make in a playoff series when the scheme may be to just to leave him open in the 15 ft area. Is it a impossible defensive scheme with way too many moving parts? I hope so.

It would be a pretty hilarious scheme.

I trust Lonzo a lot more than you. More often than not he makes the correct play. He's helped us win a lot of games already.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You don't have to worry about Lonzo morphing into Simmons - Lonzo demonstrates capacity for self-improvement. He's not going to morph into Magic Johnson overnight but he's certainly going to put in the work to get better, even if marginally better. He works hard. He's not Simmons, who doesn't work at all.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Well that just makes him a "never confuse activity with accomplishment" guy. Javonte Green "works hard". So does the immortal Tony Brown. That doesn't mean I want either playing in a crucial playoff game.

Lonzo Ball has never "improved" any NBA team that he has ever been on. Now he is "instrumental" to every team's playoff chances. This despite never having come close to ever participating in an actual playoff game.

Meanwhile Ben Simmons has been on a playoff team every season of his career and yet you bash him incessantly anyway. If he were as useless as continuously claim Philly would have been parted with him. They would have gave him away for a bag of donuts by now.

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Yes. Every team needs a selfish malcontent who doesn't show up for work and refuses to get better at his job.. I'd pay a premium for that kind of dude.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

There isn't a person alive that would rather have Lonzo Ball as opposed to Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons is a conductor. Lonzo Ball is a passenger. Big difference.

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How many games has Ben Simmons played this season?

“Lonzo has never been on a team he’s improved” he says as he watches Lonzo literally improving his favorite team in real time

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

At some point vegan and ltg will need to acknowledge they are both half right on Simmons

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Derozan is the reason this team is improved. Not Lonzo Ball and I called it before the season also. Not a revisionist. Like MANY

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Ben Simmons is holding out. He isn't the first player to ever holdout.

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Vegan started talking shit about Ben Simmons after the Atlanta series. Way to go out on a limb Vegan.

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DeRozan is also a reason this team improved. So is Caruso. And everybody who follows the NBA acknowledges it. There have been numerous articles written already about the instant chemistry with Lavine/Vuc/DeMar/Lonzo/Caruso and how well that group plays together.

It’s sad that you’re letting your predetermined Lonzo hate distract you from enjoying the best Bulls season in almost a decade.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We have mostly agreed on Simmons talent. On the other hand, you have to acknowledge how incredibly pathetic his play in that series was. Passing up on that wide open dunk to dish it to a teammate who had a worse shot was about as alarming of a play as you can see from a guy with Simmons normal vision and IQ.

Its basically undeniable there is something wrong mentally with the dude right now. Where vegan is wrong is its silly to write him off forever over it. Kid has the yips or some shit. He can still come back from it with the right help and a new environment.

Hes gotta be done in Philly cuz thats Embiid’s team and Embiid is absolutely done with him

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's actually pretty uncommon in the NBA

That, and teammates almost universally support their teammate thats holding out. They dont publicly say “I dont care about that man, he does what he does”

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I stated that he was nervous long before the dunk he passed up. I noticed it after game 3 and said it on here. I could tell he was spooked and it had to do with the free throw shooting which you told me didn't matter all that much.

He passed on the dunk because he didn't want to shoot free throws. Especially at a critical moment.

I told you long before that why it was important for him to shoot better from the line and you told me it didn't matter as long as he had a post game. Then it played out during the series and it came down to free throw shooting. Just as I expected.

He wants out of Philly because they lost confidence in him. Doc and Embiid threw him under the bus after game 7.
Even if they felt that way it should never have come out at a press conference after the game. That should have been said behind closed doors.

Simmons has to own some of this too though. If he doesn't work on his game then that's on him. Seems he doesn't but even if he stays where he is at now that's still pretty damn good. He has sacrificed more of himself than any player in the league as a result of playing with Embiid. I'd take the guy in a heartbeat.

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Guys sit in order to force trades all of the time in the NBA. The team will sit guys to prevent an injury in order to trade them

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Giannis proved me right on our FT debate. You dont have to shoot over 70%. You just have to find other ways to score and not be a gutless coward when it comes to going in the paint and having to go the line. Fuck outta here with that weak ass victory lap

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What Basketball do you happen to watch? Ben Simmons shot about 20% during the playoffs.

They couldn't play him because of it.

_________________

I watch the NBA.

Simmons shot about 5% worse than Giannis from the FT line the last couple of years and we had our debate before last year’s playoffs.

Nice try

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

None of this matters. In the playoffs Ben Simmons shot 20%. Did Giannis shoot 25%? if he did not then your point is moot.

And the debate about Ben Simmons occurred during last season's playoffs. You claimed he needed a post game. I told you he didn't.

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Jeff Van Gundy "you can only play without a talent Ben Simmons for so long without Missing it" Vegan still would rather have Lonzo Ball because he "works hard"

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Atlanta series last season's playoffs.


Played out just as I suspected

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Working hard, while shooting 45% from 3, playing great defense, and running one of the best transition games in the NBA is pretty valuable.

But yeah Lonzo has a few things he’s not good at which of course means he sucks and is a bench player

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He puts up backup point guard numbers though he plays 35 minutes per game.

That screams BACKUP to most people.

_________________

Caller Bob is a moron. Are you really this determined to validate his dumbass “box score scout” comment?

Defense rarely shows up in the box score. Same with ball movement and “hockey assists”

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF again what basketball do you watch? And bite me with the Intangibles bullshit. I'd rather focus on a player's tangibles.

And he is a good defensive player. He ain't exactly the 2nd coming of Tony Allen.

He puts up Backup PG #s because that is what he is. A glorified backup.

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