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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:14 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


If system collapses like that, youll have a lot more to worry about than what currency you had is worthless. They all will be, and at that point youll be sucking dick for a roof over your head

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:12 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


Your first point is valid. Obviously, crypto is worthless if there is no access to the Internet. But the same will be true for the crypto-yuan that may be the world's reserve currency in twenty years. It's just that it will also be controlled by a dictatorship rather than being a decentralized currency of The People. Governments are terrified of Bitcoin. It has the power and potential to completely reorder the world in a positive way, but also in a way that would strip the Establishment of power. That's why you have supposed advocate for The People, Liz Warren, railing against crypto.

The part I bolded can be said about any commodity that isn't a basic human necessity, i.e. everything expect food, water, land. The only reason the U.S. Dollar or gold have value is because people accept that they do. In the event of a complete societal collapse carrots may have more value than gold. You won't be able to eat your gold.

It's like my Libertarian crypto-mining friends say: Money is a human concept.


Not for nothing but the inherent properties of gold make it tremendously useful/valuable as a material with incalculable uses commercially, industrially, and technologically.


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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:55 pm 
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And the properties of blockchain make it valuable for decentralized currency. If the internet goes down, it will come right back up. If it doesnt, and the world is really that fucked, then were talking about carrying our weight in salt to get by. Its not going to happen, but even if it did, youre not going to care about anything you had in your past life

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:41 am 
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One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


Your first point is valid. Obviously, crypto is worthless if there is no access to the Internet. But the same will be true for the crypto-yuan that may be the world's reserve currency in twenty years. It's just that it will also be controlled by a dictatorship rather than being a decentralized currency of The People. Governments are terrified of Bitcoin. It has the power and potential to completely reorder the world in a positive way, but also in a way that would strip the Establishment of power. That's why you have supposed advocate for The People, Liz Warren, railing against crypto.

The part I bolded can be said about any commodity that isn't a basic human necessity, i.e. everything expect food, water, land. The only reason the U.S. Dollar or gold have value is because people accept that they do. In the event of a complete societal collapse carrots may have more value than gold. You won't be able to eat your gold.

It's like my Libertarian crypto-mining friends say: Money is a human concept.


Not for nothing but the inherent properties of gold make it tremendously useful/valuable as a material with incalculable uses commercially, industrially, and technologically.


In the kind of post-apocalyptic scenario that I'm discussing there isn't really going to be a commercial, industrial, or technological base. I have 100 gallons of fresh water. I'm not really going to give you any for an ounce of gold.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:57 am 
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IkeSouth wrote:

If system collapses like that, youll have a lot more to worry about than what currency you had is worthless. They all will be, and at that point youll be sucking dick for a roof over your head


So no real change for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:14 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


Your first point is valid. Obviously, crypto is worthless if there is no access to the Internet. But the same will be true for the crypto-yuan that may be the world's reserve currency in twenty years. It's just that it will also be controlled by a dictatorship rather than being a decentralized currency of The People. Governments are terrified of Bitcoin. It has the power and potential to completely reorder the world in a positive way, but also in a way that would strip the Establishment of power. That's why you have supposed advocate for The People, Liz Warren, railing against crypto.

The part I bolded can be said about any commodity that isn't a basic human necessity, i.e. everything expect food, water, land. The only reason the U.S. Dollar or gold have value is because people accept that they do. In the event of a complete societal collapse carrots may have more value than gold. You won't be able to eat your gold.

It's like my Libertarian crypto-mining friends say: Money is a human concept.


Not for nothing but the inherent properties of gold make it tremendously useful/valuable as a material with incalculable uses commercially, industrially, and technologically.


In the kind of post-apocalyptic scenario that I'm discussing there isn't really going to be a commercial, industrial, or technological base. I have 100 gallons of fresh water. I'm not really going to give you any for an ounce of gold.

I don't know if I'm interested in fighting for breaths in a post-collapse. I suppose when push comes to shove, the neanderthal gene might take over. However, the statement that I don't want to live amongst the hairless monkey savages (Spiral Stairs)is a dignified stance.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:14 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:

If system collapses like that, youll have a lot more to worry about than what currency you had is worthless. They all will be, and at that point youll be sucking dick for a roof over your head


So no real change for me.

:lol:
But a big change for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:51 am 
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Nardi wrote:
I don't know if I'm interested in fighting for breaths in a post-collapse.


I completely get that. The Libertarians also believe if you aren't holding your own Bitcoin on a wallet, you don't actually own Bitcoin. I do have some on a wallet but I also have no problem just holding it on Gemini exchange. If the exchanges collapse, what is Bitcoin going to be worth anyway? Of course, I guess you could have another Mt. Gox, but I think we've gone beyond that and I have a lot of confidence in the Winklevii and their operation.

To your larger point, that's something that has frustrated me immensely regarding our response to COVID. I've thought about this a lot. Why do we maintain an army? If we completely demilitarized, do you think China and/or Russia could actually invade the U.S. and seize control of a country as vast as we are? The mere idea of such seems outlandish.

Think about it. We maintain a military to protect a way of life, a standard of living. We may call it "freedom", but a certain standard of living is actually what we're guarding. And to protect that standard, we've never had any qualms about sending waves of 18 and 19 year old men to their deaths. But suddenly we are willing to abandon our standards of living and allow them to be completely degraded so a bunch of people over 75 years old don't die of a cold.

We may as well disband the military right now. Why the fuck would any young man fight for this?

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:53 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:

If system collapses like that, youll have a lot more to worry about than what currency you had is worthless. They all will be, and at that point youll be sucking dick for a roof over your head


So no real change for me.


:lol: :lol: Fuckin' Spaulding.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:58 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I don't know if I'm interested in fighting for breaths in a post-collapse.


I completely get that. The Libertarians also believe if you aren't holding your own Bitcoin on a wallet, you don't actually own Bitcoin. I do have some on a wallet but I also have no problem just holding it on Gemini exchange. If the exchanges collapse, what is Bitcoin going to be worth anyway? Of course, I guess you could have another Mt. Gox, but I think we've gone beyond that and I have a lot of confidence in the Winklevii and their operation.

To your larger point, that's something that has frustrated me immensely regarding our response to COVID. I've thought about this a lot. Why do we maintain an army? If we completely demilitarized, do you think China and/or Russia could actually invade the U.S. and seize control of a country as vast as we are? The mere idea of such seems outlandish.

Think about it. We maintain a military to protect a way of life, a standard of living. We may call it "freedom", but a certain standard of living is actually what we're guarding. And to protect that standard, we've never had any qualms about sending waves of 18 and 19 year old men to their deaths. But suddenly we are willing to abandon our standards of living and allow them to be completely degraded so a bunch of people over 75 years old don't die of a cold.

We may as well disband the military right now. Why the fuck would any young man fight for this?

Have you ever tried to find the median age of death for COVID? It's impossible. I have found anywhere from 68 to 81.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:04 pm 
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hnd wrote:
denisdman wrote:
IBM has been making a nice move, so let me jinx it. When you add in the dividend we receive tonight, the KD shares, and recovery in price, it is close to breakeven……

Time to short it!


i'm up .12% as of close :drunken:


Starting to feel good here. Even a stable stock price is good with that dividend yield.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:08 pm 
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If you are worried about a dollar (fiat currency) collapse I would buy silver and gold. They are the one time tested store of value. Sure you won’t make much money off them, but they will surely have value in a collapse.

Crypto sounds great in the collapse scenario. But I worry about governments banning them or over regulating them because of their illicit uses (drugs, arms, sex trafficking etc).

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:08 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
hnd wrote:
denisdman wrote:
IBM has been making a nice move, so let me jinx it. When you add in the dividend we receive tonight, the KD shares, and recovery in price, it is close to breakeven……

Time to short it!


i'm up .12% as of close :drunken:


Starting to feel good here. Even a stable stock price is good with that dividend yield.



IBM! IBM!

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:10 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
If you are worried about a dollar (fiat currency) collapse I would buy silver and gold. They are the one time tested store of value. Sure you won’t make much money off them, but they will surely have value in a collapse.

Crypto sounds great in the collapse scenario. But I worry about governments banning them or over regulating them because of their illicit uses (drugs, arms, sex trafficking etc).


That's why I just invest in drugs and weapons. The true global currency.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:13 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
But I worry about governments banning them or over regulating them because of their illicit uses (drugs, arms, sex trafficking etc).


I'm sure they'll try. Even someone like Elizabeth Warren who is supposedly a champion of the little guy hates Bitcoin. But it's too late for that. The only way to bring Bitcoin down is to destroy the Internet.

You know how Jamie Dimon said Chase would be around longer than the CCP (before walking it back)? Well, that was idiotic. But if I were actually able to cash, I'd bet a lot of money that Bitcoin will be around longer than both of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:15 pm 
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China bans bitcoin every 6 months, with zero effect on the popularity or use of crypto in China. If China can't stop its use, no government can.


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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:16 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
But I worry about governments banning them or over regulating them because of their illicit uses (drugs, arms, sex trafficking etc).


I'm sure they'll try. Even someone like Elizabeth Warren who is supposedly a champion of the little guy hates Bitcoin. But it's too late for that. The only way to bring Bitcoin down is to destroy the Internet.

You know how Jamie Dimon said Chase would be around longer than the CCP (before walking it back)? Well, that was idiotic. But if I were actually able to cash, I'd bet a lot of money that Bitcoin will be around longer than both of them.


My concern is that the U.S. government could declare it an investment product or worse not legal tender and ban it for private transactions. As they start to regulate it, I suspect the price will come down.

I have been a skeptic (wrongly so) up until now. I see dozens of concerns with Bitcoin. I hope you are right because fiat currencies are a ticking time bomb.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:18 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
China bans bitcoin every 6 months, with zero effect on the popularity or use of crypto in China. If China can't stop its use, no government can.


The U.S.Treasury controls all levers of international finance. They can stop most flows of money if/when they want.

Illicit stuff will continue, but what happens when legal businesses and financial institutions cannot deal in it?

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:20 pm 
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I took the plunge on GPK. It was featured on the front page of the WSJ. They basically make various types of paper packaging products. The article was on their big investment in a new equipment line domestically and quite a bit around the environmental impact of plastics vs paper.

The dividend yield is a bit less than I like. But the company is solidly profitable with good cash flow. The valuation is so so, but it has a decent story.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:20 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


Your first point is valid. Obviously, crypto is worthless if there is no access to the Internet. But the same will be true for the crypto-yuan that may be the world's reserve currency in twenty years. It's just that it will also be controlled by a dictatorship rather than being a decentralized currency of The People. Governments are terrified of Bitcoin. It has the power and potential to completely reorder the world in a positive way, but also in a way that would strip the Establishment of power. That's why you have supposed advocate for The People, Liz Warren, railing against crypto.

The part I bolded can be said about any commodity that isn't a basic human necessity, i.e. everything expect food, water, land. The only reason the U.S. Dollar or gold have value is because people accept that they do. In the event of a complete societal collapse carrots may have more value than gold. You won't be able to eat your gold.

It's like my Libertarian crypto-mining friends say: Money is a human concept.


Not for nothing but the inherent properties of gold make it tremendously useful/valuable as a material with incalculable uses commercially, industrially, and technologically.


In the kind of post-apocalyptic scenario that I'm discussing there isn't really going to be a commercial, industrial, or technological base. I have 100 gallons of fresh water. I'm not really going to give you any for an ounce of gold.

money and food for the win. in the end, living next to freshwater lakes will prove to be intelligent. Florida, New York, Arizona, et al, good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:16 am 
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denisdman wrote:
I took the plunge on GPK. It was featured on the front page of the WSJ. They basically make various types of paper packaging products. The article was on their big investment in a new equipment line domestically and quite a bit around the environmental impact of plastics vs paper.

The dividend yield is a bit less than I like. But the company is solidly profitable with good cash flow. The valuation is so so, but it has a decent story.


Was busy this morning so I missed the pop on this at the open...might still jump in. My IBM position is up almost $8k (thanks!).

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:17 pm 
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PM I registered with Treasury Direct for that reason. I will be buying those once my paperwork clears. If I read correctly, an individual can only have $10,000 worth.

Yeah IBM is on a great run. We already collected the spin off and one dividend, so the cap gains are gravy. I am in it for the dividend, but I will take the share appreciation too.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:22 pm 
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I made a lot of money in PINS last year, but I got out in the $50’s and $60’s. I took a brief look at it a few weeks back on its recent pullback. It is starting to become compelling again. If it keeps falling, the company will be put in play.

My concern, and I assume the market’s concern, is the decline in active users in the U.S. i suspect it is coming off a Covid high.

I am not buying (yet) nor I am recommending it now, but it is an interesting idea. I hate trying to catch a falling knife.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:46 pm 
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Taking an absolute bath on PINS. Been holding for quite some time and really don't want to continue to average down atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:55 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Taking an absolute bath on PINS. Been holding for quite some time and really don't want to continue to average down atm.


My buy in price last time was $30 and exit was $50. When it hit $50 I sold half. Then sold the rest at like $65.

I would not average down. I could see this sliding a lot more. If I dive in, it will only be at half of my desired investment level so I can average down if it keeps sliding.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:54 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
PM I registered with Treasury Direct for that reason. I will be buying those once my paperwork clears. If I read correctly, an individual can only have $10,000 worth.


The trick was buying $10k before year-end (2021) and then another $10k now, and having your spouse do the same, getting to a max of $40k.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm 
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I signed up in December, but I could not complete the registration until some paperwork comes by mail, which I have yet to receive.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:34 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I will be buying those once my paperwork clears. If I read correctly, an individual can only have $10,000 worth.


I think an individual can buy $10,000 per year.

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 Post subject: Re: Crypto/Stocks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:14 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I can't wrap my head around it. Say our system collapses or there is no access to the internet do you just say I'm paying in bitcoin and it's on my puter? It can't ever be a tangible asset right? Also it's the diamond issue. It has value because others think it does but it's value is really worthless. If we are at that point aren't you going to be trying to get food and water and defend what you have?


Your first point is valid. Obviously, crypto is worthless if there is no access to the Internet. But the same will be true for the crypto-yuan that may be the world's reserve currency in twenty years. It's just that it will also be controlled by a dictatorship rather than being a decentralized currency of The People. Governments are terrified of Bitcoin. It has the power and potential to completely reorder the world in a positive way, but also in a way that would strip the Establishment of power. That's why you have supposed advocate for The People, Liz Warren, railing against crypto.

The part I bolded can be said about any commodity that isn't a basic human necessity, i.e. everything expect food, water, land. The only reason the U.S. Dollar or gold have value is because people accept that they do. In the event of a complete societal collapse carrots may have more value than gold. You won't be able to eat your gold.

It's like my Libertarian crypto-mining friends say: Money is a human concept.


Not for nothing but the inherent properties of gold make it tremendously useful/valuable as a material with incalculable uses commercially, industrially, and technologically.


In the kind of post-apocalyptic scenario that I'm discussing there isn't really going to be a commercial, industrial, or technological base. I have 100 gallons of fresh water. I'm not really going to give you any for an ounce of gold.

money and food for the win. in the end, living next to freshwater lakes will prove to be intelligent. Florida, New York, Arizona, et al, good luck.


Uh, when is the last time you looked at a map of New York?


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