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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:30 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I don’t feel like we need to keep Nagy. Last night however I did see that he cares greatly and isn’t dumb. I think that is what management sees or will decide.


I don't want to see Nagy get fired. He has had to deal with a luck of bad luck and bad calls, too, like the roughing call on the Minn. pass play over the middle in the first half.

If you got rid of Pace, I'd be curious what Nagy would do with another year. It has to be better than four wins. But I wouldn't keep Fields as QB.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
If you got rid of Pace, I'd be curious what Nagy would do with another year. It has to be better than four wins. But I wouldn't keep Fields as QB.

You have to be joking right? Do you think Pace is calling all the shots and making decisions on Sundays. Have you watched any games lately? It would take 10 years of Jim Finks type drafts to Nagy proof this team on game day. There is enough talent on offense to do better than what they have done.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:35 pm 
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Except for the start the Eagles are playing the way Bears fans wish their team could.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:00 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Except for the start the Eagles are playing the way Bears fans wish their team could.


At home against a practice squad quarterback and a team with a lot of injuries?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:07 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I don’t feel like we need to keep Nagy. Last night however I did see that he cares greatly and isn’t dumb. I think that is what management sees or will decide.


I don't want to see Nagy get fired. He has had to deal with a luck of bad luck and bad calls, too, like the roughing call on the Minn. pass play over the middle in the first half.

If you got rid of Pace, I'd be curious what Nagy would do with another year. It has to be better than four wins. But I wouldn't keep Fields as QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:23 pm 
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I agree with Rube. Fire Pace and cut Fields, extend Nagy. This is the way forward

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:37 am 
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Interesting take in the Herald; they opined that the beginning of the end for Nagy was the blown London game, starting with outsmarting themselves by arriving in London 4 days after the Raiders.

https://www.dailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.d ... 331&ref=ar

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WHEN INVESTIGATORS from The National Transportation Safety Board arrive in Lake Forest to begin sifting through the debris of The Matt Nagy Era, here's a date to focus on: Oct. 6, 2019.

That was the fateful Sunday when Nagy and the Bears played Jon Gruden and the Raiders at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in London.

Going into the contest, Nagy was reigning NFL Coach of the Year. The two-year regular-season record of his Bears was a sterling 15-5.

They lost that British evening, 24-21.

Since that kickoff, Nagy's bobbleheads are 17-25.

Mere coincidence or a telling Queen's pitch into a football hell?

SOME BACKGROUND FACTS:

• The coalescing defense of the Bears was still getting to know coordinator Chuck Pagano, who had replaced the wizardly Vic Fangio the previous January;

• Khalil Mack was playing his first game vs. the Raiders -- the outfit that had allowed him to depart Oakland 14 months before, producing a projection of fury that assisted in surging the Bears into 6½-point favorites;

• Improbable wonder boy Mitch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was out with a dislocated shoulder, so career plumber Chase Daniel started at QB for the Bears.

SOME NOTABLE ODDITIES and other Holmesian bric-a-brac:

• Second-year LB Roquan Smith had mysteriously missed the Bears previous game -- a 16-6 win over visiting Minnesota -- for "personal reasons" that still remain just that;

• Gruden, singed by a 27-3 loss to the Seahawks at Wembley Stadium the previous autumn, had his Raiders fly directly from a game at Indianapolis the previous Sunday to London;

• The Bears -- presumably after all due consideration by top-level decision-makers including George McCaskey and Ryan Pace -- rolled into London a full four days after Oakland, on Friday.

GAME FACTS:

• Although hardly a juggernaut, Derek Carr and the less jet-lagged Raiders led 17-0 at the half;

• Daniel and the Bears responded with a 21-point third quarter and were ahead 21-17 entering the final 15 minutes;

• In a remarkable foretelling of all The Nagy Era has disintegrated into, Gruden's gang somehow plugged together a 15-play, 93-yard drive that culminated when Josh Jacobs hurdled into the London air with 1:57 remaining for the winning TD.

CONCLUSIONS AND OTHER CHICAGO SPORTS MYSTICISM:

• Chicago team "eras" have been known to flip on a single event.

Leo Durocher and the 1969 "Black Cat Game" at Shea Stadium -- which actually featured a trained feline named Choo Choo from Queensborough Casting -- is one example.

Dick Motta, Chet Walker and The Mother's Day Meltdown of 1975 in the NBA Western Conference Finals against Golden State is another.

Anything Jeremy Colliton touched would be a third;

• Nagy was young magic personified when his Bears deplaned at London's Heathrow Airport. The genie has never stayed out of his coaching bottle ever since;

• NFL or otherwise, it's a hard world to sustain a break in.

That will undoubtedly be part of the final NTSB report from Lake Forest.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:43 am 
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In retrospect, I'd say the beginning of the end for Nagy came in the 2019 preseason, when Nagy was actively hiding (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky by refusing to play him more than a few snaps in any of the exhibition games. Moon Mullin was one of the few reporters who sensed anything was off and was widely ridiculed for his opinion. It is now clear that Nagy knew his offense wasn't working with Trubisky--and that he couldn't find a solution to its malfunctioning due to his rigid, dogmatic approach to football.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:45 am 
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Nagy should not be on the sidelines the rest of this season. He's a lame duck and brings nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:09 pm 
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a retard wrote:
Interesting take in the Herald; they opined that the beginning of the end for Nagy was the blown London game, starting with outsmarting themselves by arriving in London 4 days after the Raiders.

https://www.dailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.d ... 331&ref=ar

Quote:
• In a remarkable foretelling of all The Nagy Era has disintegrated into, Gruden's gang somehow plugged together a 15-play, 93-yard drive that culminated when Josh Jacobs hurdled into the London air with 1:57 remaining for the winning TD.


Strangely one of the first signs the wheels were falling off the team was the frequent times the D shit the bed in the 4th Q. That's one thing I can't really blame Nagy for. Maybe you can say the offensive ineptitude the previous 3 quarters in games caused the D to be gassed, but they still had leads in the 4th they pissed away.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:37 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
a genius wrote:
Interesting take in the Herald; they opined that the beginning of the end for Nagy was the blown London game, starting with outsmarting themselves by arriving in London 4 days after the Raiders.

https://www.dailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.d ... 331&ref=ar

Quote:
• In a remarkable foretelling of all The Nagy Era has disintegrated into, Gruden's gang somehow plugged together a 15-play, 93-yard drive that culminated when Josh Jacobs hurdled into the London air with 1:57 remaining for the winning TD.


Strangely one of the first signs the wheels were falling off the team was the frequent times the D shit the bed in the 4th Q. That's one thing I can't really blame Nagy for. Maybe you can say the offensive ineptitude the previous 3 quarters in games caused the D to be gassed, but they still had leads in the 4th they pissed away.


I'm not sure if you participated in, or know/care about, the W/L debate on the board for MLB pitchers. One side maintains that W/L is meaningless because Ws for pitchers often rely on run support, so the thinking is a lack of run support in a game you're on record for losing essentially makes that "L" meaningless. After all, how can you blame a pitcher for losing a 1-0 game. The opposing side says no, you're indeed a loser because all you had to do was meet or beat the performance of your counterpart. Your counterpart gave up 0 runs and you gave up 1 run, so therefore you deserve the loss and moreover that L does indeed mean something about your performance and quality as a pitcher.

I think your view on the defense "pissing away" leads puts you firmly in the pro-W/L camp, meaning you'd probably also blame a pitcher for losing a 1-0 decision after, say, he gives up a walk-off HR in the 9th inning. I'm in the other camp - I don't blame the pitcher for the 1-0 loss and I would hesitate for blaming the defense for giving up leads/TDs. For me, the "run support/offensive production" matters. Here's an extreme example, but if the Bears are up 3-0 late in the 4th quarter and then give up a TD with no time remaining...that sucks, yes. But I'm not framing the loss as the Bears D failing to hold a lead, even though that's factually true. I think it's analytically incorrect because it implies that the Bears should have held the opposing team scoreless, an almost impossible standard. Just like it's unreasonable to blame the pitcher for the loss after he gave up a single run. For me, it's about holding the D to a reasonable standard going into the game, a standard that allows for points given up to the other team. Offenses are going to score, the rules are designed to make scoring easier than it's ever been. Hopefully your offense pulls their own weight if you do the same on your end.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:10 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
If you got rid of Pace, I'd be curious what Nagy would do with another year. It has to be better than four wins. But I wouldn't keep Fields as QB.


if you could get a top half of the 1st round pick back for Fields and then flip that pick++ for Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson or Rodgers


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:18 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
a genius wrote:
Interesting take in the Herald; they opined that the beginning of the end for Nagy was the blown London game, starting with outsmarting themselves by arriving in London 4 days after the Raiders.

https://www.dailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.d ... 331&ref=ar

Quote:
• In a remarkable foretelling of all The Nagy Era has disintegrated into, Gruden's gang somehow plugged together a 15-play, 93-yard drive that culminated when Josh Jacobs hurdled into the London air with 1:57 remaining for the winning TD.


Strangely one of the first signs the wheels were falling off the team was the frequent times the D shit the bed in the 4th Q. That's one thing I can't really blame Nagy for. Maybe you can say the offensive ineptitude the previous 3 quarters in games caused the D to be gassed, but they still had leads in the 4th they pissed away.


I'm not sure if you participated in, or know/care about, the W/L debate on the board for MLB pitchers. One side maintains that W/L is meaningless because Ws for pitchers often rely on run support, so the thinking is a lack of run support in a game you're on record for losing essentially makes that "L" meaningless. After all, how can you blame a pitcher for losing a 1-0 game. The opposing side says no, you're indeed a loser because all you had to do was meet or beat the performance of your counterpart. Your counterpart gave up 0 runs and you gave up 1 run, so therefore you deserve the loss and moreover that L does indeed mean something about your performance and quality as a pitcher.

I think your view on the defense "pissing away" leads puts you firmly in the pro-W/L camp, meaning you'd probably also blame a pitcher for losing a 1-0 decision after, say, he gives up a walk-off HR in the 9th inning. I'm in the other camp - I don't blame the pitcher for the 1-0 loss and I would hesitate for blaming the defense for giving up leads/TDs. For me, the "run support/offensive production" matters. Here's an extreme example, but if the Bears are up 3-0 late in the 4th quarter and then give up a TD with no time remaining...that sucks, yes. But I'm not framing the loss as the Bears D failing to hold a lead, even though that's factually true. I think it's analytically incorrect because it implies that the Bears should have held the opposing team scoreless, an almost impossible standard. Just like it's unreasonable to blame the pitcher for the loss after he gave up a single run. For me, it's about holding the D to a reasonable standard going into the game, a standard that allows for points given up to the other team. Offenses are going to score, the rules are designed to make scoring easier than it's ever been. Hopefully your offense pulls their own weight if you do the same on your end.


Not really equivalent. If the starting pitcher (defense) is out there in the 9th inning (late 4th Quarter) with a lead and he blows it, he lost the game. I doesn't matter if the score was 11-10 or 1-0 going into the 9th, he had a chance to win it and he didn't. That's what great pitchers/defenses do. If you want to say if he lost because of unearned runs or something out of his control and doesn't deserve blame, I won't argue with that, but if he gives up a walk-off home run then he lost the game. If the defense holds someone but then some goof celebrates a sack a little too much and gets a 15 yarder, sure, they're off the hook, but that didn't happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:24 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:


Not really equivalent. If the starting pitcher (defense) is out there in the 9th inning (late 4th Quarter) with a lead and he blows it, he lost the game. I doesn't matter if the score was 11-10 or 1-0 going into the 9th, he had a chance to win it and he didn't. That's what great pitchers/defenses do. If you want to say if he lost because of unearned runs or something out of his control and doesn't deserve blame, I won't argue with that, but if he gives up a walk-off home run then he lost the game. If the defense holds someone but then some goof celebrates a sack a little too much and gets a 15 yarder, sure, they're off the hook, but that didn't happen.


In the 1-0 loss the 0 was out of the pitcher's control. In the 16-15 loss to the Eagles the pathetic 15 was out of the D's control. Aside from a 7 point game, an outlier, the Eagles output against the Bears in that game was the lowest score they had all year.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:53 pm 
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And then the statistically worse in every way defense of the Saints, which gave up the outlier 7 to them earlier, held them to 14 the next week. Zero in the second half of a one score game.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:59 pm 
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But again you're only able to praise giving up 14 because the offense - not under the defense's control - scored 20 or whatever it was. Had the Saints scored 13 I assume you'd be criticizing the D. For me, I'm loving 14 whether the offense scored 20 or 13, that's a job well done irrespective of what the offense was able to pull off. Same with the pitcher who gave up the walk off in the 9th to lose 0-1 - job well done. Find better hitters.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:15 pm 
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That’s why I pointed out they blanked them in the 2nd half, where if they gave up a TD they’d have probably lost.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:31 pm 
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That's fine, we continue to apply different perspectives. You're coming from a more in-game perspective whereas I'm just looking at the bottom line. For example if you told me the Bears would hold the Eagles to a TD under their scoring average in that playoff game I assume most of us would see that as a good thing. Similarly if you told me a pitcher would give up 1 run over 9 innings I think we'd all take that. That's why in both cases I'm not blaming the D or the pitcher for the loss - again, I'm happy with 1 run over 9 innings. That's phenomenal. 16 points given up isn't a superb performance but it's still an excellent performance relative to what the Eagles are capable of scoring. So for me I don't know how someone coming at it from your perspective would blame the pitcher for the 0-1 loss when going in you'd take one run given up over 9 innings 10/10 times. The only rejoinder you might have is to say "well I'd take one run given up over 9 except if that one run loses the game," in which case I'd say your blame for the loss is being applied disproportionately on the pitcher.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:01 pm 
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The Bears were playing the game in front of them. What the Wentz led or Foles led Eagles had done in the regular season was meaningless. The Bears invested the lion's share of their cap space on defense. The Bears offense was designed to complement their defense. It's not unreasonable to demand that the defense hold a late lead that had just been given to them. For whatever reason, the Bears routinely failed to do this under Nagy. Sometimes they were bailed out by a clock. It was never because they did what a great defense is supposed to do to close out a game.

Give Lovie's defense a lead late in a game and you could pretty much start celebrating.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:38 pm 
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Yeah, you don’t get to peace out at crunch time because you were good (or bad) for the first 52 minutes of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:17 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Yeah, you don’t get to peace out at crunch time because you were good (or bad) for the first 52 minutes of the game.


But crunch time circumstances in the scenarios we're talking about are because of the lack of run support/offensive production. If the other half of the team did it's job there's no crunch time, it's cruise control time. A pitcher who gives up the GW homer to lose 1-0 after pitching 8 innings of shutout ball is the player of the game in my book. He didn't peace out. I can tell you who did peace out though...

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Yeah, you don’t get to peace out at crunch time because you were good (or bad) for the first 52 minutes of the game.


But crunch time circumstances in the scenarios we're talking about are because of the lack of run support/offensive production. If the other half of the team did it's job there's no crunch time, it's cruise control time. A pitcher who gives up the GW homer to lose 1-0 after pitching 8 innings of shutout ball is the player of the game in my book. He didn't peace out. I can tell you who did peace out though...


As Nas said, none of the previous ifs matter when it's the 4th quarter and you need a stop to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:39 pm 
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Gonna agree to disagree then. I'm not gonna blame the D for losing a game 3-0 on a last second GW FG.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:42 pm 
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Cool, but in the game they were playing they were winning.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:24 pm 
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Pep Hamilton?

Indianapolis Colts (2013–2015) -Andrew Luck
Offensive coordinator

Los Angeles Chargers (2020) -Justin Herbert
Quarterbacks coach

Houston Texans (2021–present)
Passing game coordinator & quarterbacks coach

Davis Mills improving the 2nd half of the season.

Last week against the Jags:

19/30 209 7.0 AVG 2 TD 1 INT 92.2 RTG

This week against Chargers:

21/27 254 9.4 AVG 2 TD 0 INT 130.6 RTG


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:40 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
Pep Hamilton?

Indianapolis Colts (2013–2015) -Andrew Luck
Offensive coordinator

Los Angeles Chargers (2020) -Justin Herbert
Quarterbacks coach

Houston Texans (2021–present)
Passing game coordinator & quarterbacks coach

Davis Mills improving the 2nd half of the season.

Last week against the Jags:

19/30 209 7.0 AVG 2 TD 1 INT 92.2 RTG

This week against Chargers:

21/27 254 9.4 AVG 2 TD 0 INT 130.6 RTG


He was the Bears QB coach under Lovie IIRC. Hard pass for me unless he has some NFL blue blood in his family.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:30 am 
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As shitty as Nagy is he probably has a better record against reams over 500 than lovie. Both are terrible

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:12 am 
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Still not fired


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:18 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
In retrospect, I'd say the beginning of the end for Nagy came in the 2019 preseason, when Nagy was actively hiding (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky by refusing to play him more than a few snaps in any of the exhibition games. Moon Mullin was one of the few reporters who sensed anything was off and was widely ridiculed for his opinion. It is now clear that Nagy knew his offense wasn't working with Trubisky--and that he couldn't find a solution to its malfunctioning due to his rigid, dogmatic approach to football.


Could not agree more, but it went deeper than that as Nagy and Pace were being exposed for being terrible at their jobs as it became apparent that the offensive players they had scouted, drafted, and signed were not very good at football. Started to become evident that Ryan Pace had absolutely positively no ability to recognize offensive football talent, and had an even worse approach to building an offensive roster. It was also the initial indication that Matt Nagy was unable to develop a workable NFL level offensive scheme that best took advantage of the talents of his players.

That is why the Bears severely limited access and used goofs like Hub to spin the piss poor results as, "Mitch is ready to move to the 2.0 level of this offense", as if Nagy's offense was so complex and so advanced that it was beyond most NFL players when the reality was Nagy had absolutely no idea what he was doing. A few media guys (Olin and Moon) were instantly onto Pace/Nagy, but the other 50 or so media lapdogs that cover the team were all spouting the same team spin, so you had to really listen carefully to get an unvarnished assessment of the state of the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Matt Nagy
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:20 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Still not fired


Would imagine George doesn't roll into the office until 9 or 10 AM, have to stop at some high priced trendy breakfast place where the food sucks, but people go to be seen in Lake Forest before stumbling into another hapless day at the owner of the laughingstock franchise in the NFL, YOUR Chicago Bears.


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