Was Ray Allen ever the best player on his own team?

Come on, he was not a better player than Iverson. This whole idea just blows my mind

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Unless Rashard Lewis was better in Seattle. MANY liked Lewis.

Edit: I forgot he played in Milwaukee.

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It doesn't matter what "could have" happened or not. What matters is what actually happened. What happened is AI took a less talented philly team past Allen's more talented team to the Finals. The thing with you is you let your personal distaste for someone cloud your assessment of their accomplishments. Trae Young could cure cancer during a TV timeout and then win the Finals by the end of the game and still you wouldn't be convinced.

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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It's semantics. I'm not saying Nash was not no 1 on Phoenix. When I say he's not no 1 I mean he can't be your MJ, he can't be Batman. On Phoenix he was Batman and...like I said, it didn't amount to anything. If we had Prime Nash today on, say, the Raptors, I'd say they're a second round playoff team at best. However, put Nash on the Bulls to pair with our big three then I'd say we're a finals contender.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Exclude Phoenix for now.
Ok between 2000-2004 Steve Nash was undoubtedly the 2nd best player on the Dallas Mavericks. They won between 52 and 60 games every season for 4 years.

Their playoff finishes include 1 Conf Finals
2 Semifinals Finishes 1 first round knockout. In a tough ass Conference that included the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Tim Duncan Spurs, The Chris Webber Kings and The Portland Trailblazers.

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I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Trae Young won't do anything of that so your point is moot. Not to mention irrelevant.

Fact remains Iverson got to the Finals in a Shitty ass Conference during a time in which J. Kidd accomplished it twice. It wasn't tough to do back then.

You claimed AI played great head to head until I flashed his stats and then there were Crickets.

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Sort of kills the 2nd best player Argument aye?

2000 53 wins
2001 57 wins
2002 60 wins
2004 52 wins

Conference Finals thrown in. All with him as the 2nd best player.

And only in your twisted logic could a guy that was 7 time All NBA be no better than a 3rd option on a contending team

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You're flying too close to the sun here. AI dropped 44 points on Ray Allen's head in a ECF game 7 on his way to the Finals. Tyrone Lue wasn't the first person Iverson stepped over - the first was Allen.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Ff, please see LTG's post to understand my point on Nash. I'm not joking, not being sarcastic.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

AI also shot 34% and ran from Ray Allen after game 3 of the series. Head to Head was over at that point.

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If there's one thing AI regrets from 2001, it's beating the more talented Bucks in the ECF.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I hope this isn't one of those "championship or bust" Bernstein style arguments.

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This isn't a team discussion and there is only so much mileage he can get out of that one. Do you want me to pull up his record as a player in the NBA and compare it to Ray's?

Oh yeah Ray does have 2 rings. 1 where he was either the best or 2nd best player on his own team.

Should I reference that too? That would just about kill things now wouldn't it? Just Asking A Question

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Allen was at best the 3rd best player on the championship teams he played on, no way he was 1st or 2nd.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

On which championship team was Ray Allen the best player?

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

He's trying to say Allen was 2 or 1 on Boston. As usual, he's stretching the truth. Pun intended.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Yes it seemed clear that's what he was saying but I don't think that's true.

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“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

2nd best on Boston

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When they went Head to Head in the ECF Allen dogged AI. That's always the tell tale.

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I've got no beef with Allen but I disagree with that. He was a close 3rd.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Iverson has more All NBA appearances. Yeah he probably is but it's close between he and Pierce.

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what separates AI from any discussion on allen is size. just about everybody in that league had like half a foot on the guy yet he was larger than life when he was on the court. he played out of his mind. yeah he was a career chucker but that's because he had to be. the guy was skin and bones, 90 lbs. soaking wet. he was like a little squirrel out there. for what he was able to do with a D-level sixers team was unbelievable. nobody in the east was going to get past the lakers at that point.

allen is one of the best pure shooters of all time. up there with reggie and pistol pete. but iverson had to be more than a pure shooter because he was barely six feet tall. and once he was beyond his years of fluttering around the court like a drunk fruit fly, he had very little else to contribute.

ray allen could shoot 3's all day now if he wanted to.

AI was All-League 8 times.
RA was All-League 3 times.

AI was an All-Star 11 times
RA was an All-Star 10 times

AI finished in the top 20 in assists 7 times.
RA finished in the top 20 in assists 0 times

AI was top 10 in steals 10 times
RA was top 10 in steals 0 times

AI was top 5 in scoring 8 times & 7th all time
RA was top 5 in scoring 0 times & 98th all time

We can all agree that RA was clearly a better pure shooter and a deserving HOF player. However, AI was a better scorer and a top 10 player in the league for nearly a decade. RA may have been top 10 for 1 season.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

The most damning evidence here may be the All-NBA selections. Iverson made a first, second, or third team seven times. Out of those seven times, Allen also made All-NBA two times. Iverson was voted in as a SG, the same position Allen played. In the two times where they overlapped on one of the All-NBA teams, Iverson beat Allen each time for the higher tier. Iverson made it five other times where Allen did not make it at all. This suggests that the peers of both considered Iverson the superior SG.

https://www.nba.com/news/history-all-nba-teams

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Hello, 911? Yes, I’d like to report a murder.

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He "MURDERS" AI on every "analytics" argument you want to make. Every single one of them

And when they matched up head to head, (Always the most important thing when comparing 2 players) he "murdered" AI.

AI gets it based on ALL NBA nods though. I have to honor that.

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Then why did AI beat out Allen for higher spots on the All NBA teams.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I will go with AI because of that but everything else suggests that Ray Allen was the better player.

AI in my opinion, is one of the most overrated players in NBA history

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I would take AI over Allen because I believe peak AI is a top 5 scorer of all time. However, I believe Jesus Shuttleworth has about 60 more win shares than AI. That's a significant number. I can't fault anyone for choosing him over AI when I see that.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!