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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:14 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.

yes, but that's not the only factor.

Jbi11s wrote:
The way out of the income inequality trajectory we are on is not more capitalism
I agree with your sentiment, but income inequality has risen because of our socialist policies disguised as capitalist.

Your previous list was spot on, but missed an important one....term limits.

Our problems can all be identified by following the money. In theory, I agree no single person should be a billionaire but we have to look at why and how that is the case. The money is already there to level the playing field...it's all wasted by and amongst the 1%

This doesn't get solved until that influence leaves our elected offices. No issue with a wealthy person spending 8-10 years in public service. My issue is a wealthy person spending a lifetime in "public service" leaving even wealthier.


For example?

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:25 pm 
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can propublica tells us how the oil companies earned a 'surprise' $180 billion last year when the world's economies slowed and less cars and passenger planes traveling?

just read where marathon oil has decided to POUR cash into dividends and stock buy-backs instead of increasing oil production.

thanks, joe. the portfolios of the establishment just keep growing and growing like his hairline. an excellent establishment president. excellent.


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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:44 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
we have had a mix of socialism and capitalism for about 100 years now. the problem is the wealthy have regained all of that power they used to have in the 20s and 30s. we dont need more social policies, we need to bring the current businesses in check. the tech industry and big pharma are out of control, and its killing society.

Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.


Unionization and union-busting are both results of capitalism.

So, by the transitive property (though not the Favre Fan Terrible Football Thought Transitive Property)....

Unions can be adapted into the system of capitalism and has proven to be the case. The first thing other systems do is ban unions.


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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:58 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
we have had a mix of socialism and capitalism for about 100 years now. the problem is the wealthy have regained all of that power they used to have in the 20s and 30s. we dont need more social policies, we need to bring the current businesses in check. the tech industry and big pharma are out of control, and its killing society.

Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.


Unionization and union-busting are both results of capitalism.

So, by the transitive property (though not the Favre Fan Terrible Football Thought Transitive Property)....

Unions can be adapted into the system of capitalism and has proven to be the case. The first thing other systems do is ban unions.


Unions thrived in America during the New Deal Era through the onset of Neoliberalism because the country had a highly socialized economy.

Neoliberalism de-collectivized the economy, destroyed the public sphere, and presided over a period in which the interests of government became increasingly inseparable from the interests of business (fascism),

Unions cannot survive in this type of economy.

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:07 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
we have had a mix of socialism and capitalism for about 100 years now. the problem is the wealthy have regained all of that power they used to have in the 20s and 30s. we dont need more social policies, we need to bring the current businesses in check. the tech industry and big pharma are out of control, and its killing society.

Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.


Unionization and union-busting are both results of capitalism.

So, by the transitive property (though not the Favre Fan Terrible Football Thought Transitive Property)....

Unions can be adapted into the system of capitalism and has proven to be the case. The first thing other systems do is ban unions.


Unions thrived in America during the New Deal Era through the onset of Neoliberalism because the country had a highly socialized economy.

Neoliberalism de-collectivized the economy, destroyed the public sphere, and presided over a period in which the interests of government became increasingly inseparable from the interests of business (fascism),

Unions cannot survive in this type of economy.

Thanks for making my case though I'd say private sector unions were at their strongest post WW2.


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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:26 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
we have had a mix of socialism and capitalism for about 100 years now. the problem is the wealthy have regained all of that power they used to have in the 20s and 30s. we dont need more social policies, we need to bring the current businesses in check. the tech industry and big pharma are out of control, and its killing society.

Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.


Unionization and union-busting are both results of capitalism.

So, by the transitive property (though not the Favre Fan Terrible Football Thought Transitive Property)....

Unions can be adapted into the system of capitalism and has proven to be the case. The first thing other systems do is ban unions.


Unions thrived in America during the New Deal Era through the onset of Neoliberalism because the country had a highly socialized economy.

Neoliberalism de-collectivized the economy, destroyed the public sphere, and presided over a period in which the interests of government became increasingly inseparable from the interests of business (fascism),

Unions cannot survive in this type of economy.

Thanks for making my case though I'd say private sector unions were at their strongest post WW2.


If your point is that unions can exist in an economy that balances capitalism and socialism, then I agree.

Unchecked capitalism leads to the destruction of unions and fascism.

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:40 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
If your point is that unions can exist in an economy that balances capitalism and socialism, then I agree.

Unchecked capitalism leads to the destruction of unions and fascism.

What's more capitalistic than collective bargaining? It can exist without socialism. Not a problem. Socialism is a pisspoor substitution for CBA's. Socialism has no skin in the game and the gov't gets to set prices/wages/pensions/handouts AND take their cut. There's no adaptability to socialism. It just ends up unwieldy and broke. We see it over and over and over again.


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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:00 pm 
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we could solve all the problems with universal income $1200/month and then tax everyone a flat rate $14,400 per year.

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:20 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
If your point is that unions can exist in an economy that balances capitalism and socialism, then I agree.

Unchecked capitalism leads to the destruction of unions and fascism.

What's more capitalistic than collective bargaining? It can exist without socialism. Not a problem. Socialism is a pisspoor substitution for CBA's. Socialism has no skin in the game and the gov't gets to set prices/wages/pensions/handouts AND take their cut. There's no adaptability to socialism. It just ends up unwieldy and broke. We see it over and over and over again.


The only thing that allows for unions under capitalism is state intervention, which is decidedly anti-capitalist.

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:48 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
If your point is that unions can exist in an economy that balances capitalism and socialism, then I agree.

Unchecked capitalism leads to the destruction of unions and fascism.

What's more capitalistic than collective bargaining? It can exist without socialism. Not a problem. Socialism is a pisspoor substitution for CBA's. Socialism has no skin in the game and the gov't gets to set prices/wages/pensions/handouts AND take their cut. There's no adaptability to socialism. It just ends up unwieldy and broke. We see it over and over and over again.


The only thing that allows for unions under capitalism is state intervention, which is decidedly anti-capitalist.

It's called regulation. Safety and occupational hazards, the constitutional right of association, things of that nature.

And make up your mind. Is the state "decidedly anti-capitalist" or are they "inseparable from the interests of business"?


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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:47 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Income inequality is the result of union busting, not capitalism.

yes, but that's not the only factor.

Jbi11s wrote:
The way out of the income inequality trajectory we are on is not more capitalism
I agree with your sentiment, but income inequality has risen because of our socialist policies disguised as capitalist.

Your previous list was spot on, but missed an important one....term limits.

Our problems can all be identified by following the money. In theory, I agree no single person should be a billionaire but we have to look at why and how that is the case. The money is already there to level the playing field...it's all wasted by and amongst the 1%

This doesn't get solved until that influence leaves our elected offices. No issue with a wealthy person spending 8-10 years in public service. My issue is a wealthy person spending a lifetime in "public service" leaving even wealthier.


For example?

Elon Musk, Pfizer, Any other company awarded Federal Government Contracts.

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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: ProPublica
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:35 am 
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Billionaires. Better are literally everything than us proles.

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