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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'm going to ask a question here. Not sure if it was addressed or not.

You guys do understand that in a case of miscarriage, if the fetus can't be passed naturally, an abortion is required, right?

In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, an inability to abort the fetus from the tubes would probably kill the mother too, right?

In the case of a fetus dying in utero, an abortion would be needed to get rid of it, right?

I've heard of situations where the fetus doesn't develop lungs, or a brain, and wouldn't live long enough to take a breath...or have the ability to, where an abortion is necessary...those are things that aren't found out until later in the pregnancy.

I'm not saying that killing a viable child is right. I'm asking questions about when it's not viable. Is it okay to require the mother to carry a corpse? Or possibly something that could kill her?


None of those examples are abortions. They are just distractions.


In medical terms, they are, doctor.


Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


As long as that remains the case, cool. I honestly don't care what people do as a whole. Necessary procedures should be protected, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:28 am 
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I generally believe anything I read on the internet, but I always thought abortion required ending the pregnancy.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:16 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:19 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:20 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'm going to ask a question here. Not sure if it was addressed or not.

You guys do understand that in a case of miscarriage, if the fetus can't be passed naturally, an abortion is required, right?

In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, an inability to abort the fetus from the tubes would probably kill the mother too, right?

In the case of a fetus dying in utero, an abortion would be needed to get rid of it, right?

I've heard of situations where the fetus doesn't develop lungs, or a brain, and wouldn't live long enough to take a breath...or have the ability to, where an abortion is necessary...those are things that aren't found out until later in the pregnancy.

I'm not saying that killing a viable child is right. I'm asking questions about when it's not viable. Is it okay to require the mother to carry a corpse? Or possibly something that could kill her?


None of those examples are abortions. They are just distractions.


In medical terms, they are, doctor.


Ectopic pregnancy is a different treatment than an abortion. A dead fetus is called stillborn or a miscarriage. It's not an abortion. So in medical terms you are full of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:23 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Likely true. But in the event that somehow abortion was made illegal across the nation, it would go as I described.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:25 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Likely true. But in the event that somehow abortion was made illegal across the nation, it would go as I described.

We will have term limits and money out of Federal politics before we see abortion made illegal at the Federal level.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:32 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Why do you think it's unlikely that a Republican Congress and president would be unlikely to pass a federal law prohibiting abortion?

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:37 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Why do you think it's unlikely that a Republican Congress and president would be unlikely to pass a federal law prohibiting abortion?

1) We've had Republican Congress and Republican President and it's never happened. They don't want that vote tied to their re-election campaigns.
2) We've had Democratic Congress and Democratic President and it's never happened (LEGALIZED at Federal level). They don't want that vote tied to their re-election campaigns.
3) This is and should have always been a STATE issue.
4) This is a legislative issue, not a Judicial issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:49 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Why do you think it's unlikely that a Republican Congress and president would be unlikely to pass a federal law prohibiting abortion?

1) We've had Republican Congress and Republican President and it's never happened. They don't want that vote tied to their re-election campaigns.
2) We've had Democratic Congress and Democratic President and it's never happened (LEGALIZED at Federal level). They don't want that vote tied to their re-election campaigns.
3) This is and should have always been a STATE issue.
4) This is a legislative issue, not a Judicial issue.


Points 2-4 are irrelevant. If Trump is elected in 2024 and the Republicans control both houses as expected, there's a decent chance such a law will be passed.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:53 pm 
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R's controlled Congress during Trump's first two years in office.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:57 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Truthfully, most people can't afford to pay the cost for some of these abortions. These are wealthy people problems. They'll never have an issue aborting a child. Most of the things that you mentioned are services that all girls/women will be able to receive in America.


No doubt about it. When a sixteen year old in Winnetka gets knocked up she'll go to her gynecologist and he'll perform a procedure to end the pregnancy that won't be coded as an abortion on the billing.

It's Winnetka, so actually the 16 year-old girl will just go get an abortion...it's not like it's ever going to be illegal in Illinois.


Why do you think it's unlikely that a Republican Congress and president would be unlikely to pass a federal law prohibiting abortion?

Because Republicans can’t pass anything aside from the occasional tax cut.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:03 pm 
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The only way this happens is if the Dems eliminate the filibuster before then.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:04 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
R's controlled Congress during Trump's first two years in office.


So what?

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:08 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
R's controlled Congress during Trump's first two years in office.


So what?
Image




If such a law wasn't passed when Trump was President with R's controlling both houses of Congress, why would it pass under the same circumstances two-three years from now?

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
R's controlled Congress during Trump's first two years in office.


So what?
Image




If such a law wasn't passed when Trump was President with R's controlling both houses of Congress, why would it pass under the same circumstances two-three years from now?


Because our politics are becoming increasingly vindictive and petty.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
R's controlled Congress during Trump's first two years in office.


So what?
Image




If such a law wasn't passed when Trump was President with R's controlling both houses of Congress, why would it pass under the same circumstances two-three years from now?


Republican majorities are potentially larger, the president will not be pursuing reelection, and national polarization is intensifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:26 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
If Trump is elected in 2024 and the Republicans control both houses as expected, there's a decent chance such a law will be passed.


If the non-Trump portion of the Republican party back Liz Cheney as their standard-bearer in the 2024 Repub primaries, it will be when not if. Other than Hillary running again, can't think of any candidate more likely to remind folks why it might not have been or be crazy-adjacent to vote Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:17 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
I'm going to ask a question here. Not sure if it was addressed or not.

You guys do understand that in a case of miscarriage, if the fetus can't be passed naturally, an abortion is required, right?

In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, an inability to abort the fetus from the tubes would probably kill the mother too, right?

In the case of a fetus dying in utero, an abortion would be needed to get rid of it, right?

I've heard of situations where the fetus doesn't develop lungs, or a brain, and wouldn't live long enough to take a breath...or have the ability to, where an abortion is necessary...those are things that aren't found out until later in the pregnancy.

I'm not saying that killing a viable child is right. I'm asking questions about when it's not viable. Is it okay to require the mother to carry a corpse? Or possibly something that could kill her?


None of those examples are abortions. They are just distractions.


In medical terms, they are, doctor.


Ectopic pregnancy is a different treatment than an abortion. A dead fetus is called stillborn or a miscarriage. It's not an abortion. So in medical terms you are full of it.


Killing a baby in a fallopian tube = medical treatment, perfectly acceptable
Killing a baby in a uterus = murder, unacceptable

Man what a difference a few inches makes!

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:39 pm 
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Despite all the crying and grandstanding, US Congress will not touch this....THEY DON'T HAVE TO. It's with the states.
Take away Democrat and Republican titles....these people have one thing in common...don't do anything that prevents you from getting re-elected. There will never be Federal legislation on abortion....they had years to do it and always managed to find other "priorities". That's not changing....just as there will be no shortage of states all can visit to get their abortions.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:12 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Despite all the crying and grandstanding, US Congress will not touch this....THEY DON'T HAVE TO. It's with the states.
Take away Democrat and Republican titles....these people have one thing in common...don't do anything that prevents you from getting re-elected. There will never be Federal legislation on abortion....they had years to do it and always managed to find other "priorities". That's not changing....just as there will be no shortage of states all can visit to get their abortions.


I can see why you wistfully long for Favre Fan's presence on the board since your absolutist view on the politics of abortion resembles his absolutism on Matthew Stafford's chances of winning a Super Bowl. You two appear to be kindred spirits.

Your position ignores the fact that the composition of Congress is changing along with the contours of our national politics and the character of our major parties. It wasn't too long ago that liberals were arguing that Trump would never be elected president or that the Supreme Court would never take down Roe vs. Wade. The definition of what is "possible" in American politics has changed significantly over the past decade. I personally wouldn't bet on a federal prohibition being enacted, but the (over)confidence with which you assert such legislation could never be passed strikes me as being woefully out of step with the times.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:43 pm 
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Do people like her (and Julie, who re-tweeted this) actually believe the government is going to be coming into their homes and reading their coded diaries?

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:11 pm 
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Your phone spies on everything you do, and these psychopaths are on a mission. One can't be too safe with this, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:05 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Your phone spies on everything you do, and these psychopaths are on a mission. One can't be too safe with this, I guess.


Nope, nothing to worry about from the people that brought you the Texas Abortion Bounty Hunters


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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:06 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Your phone spies on everything you do, and these psychopaths are on a mission. One can't be too safe with this, I guess.


Nope, nothing to worry about from the people that brought you the Texas Abortion Bounty Hunters

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:49 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Despite all the crying and grandstanding, US Congress will not touch this....THEY DON'T HAVE TO. It's with the states.
Take away Democrat and Republican titles....these people have one thing in common...don't do anything that prevents you from getting re-elected. There will never be Federal legislation on abortion....they had years to do it and always managed to find other "priorities". That's not changing....just as there will be no shortage of states all can visit to get their abortions.


I can see why you wistfully long for Favre Fan's presence on the board since your absolutist view on the politics of abortion resembles his absolutism on Matthew Stafford's chances of winning a Super Bowl. You two appear to be kindred spirits.

Your position ignores the fact that the composition of Congress is changing along with the contours of our national politics and the character of our major parties. It wasn't too long ago that liberals were arguing that Trump would never be elected president or that the Supreme Court would never take down Roe vs. Wade. The definition of what is "possible" in American politics has changed significantly over the past decade. I personally wouldn't bet on a federal prohibition being enacted, but the (over)confidence with which you assert such legislation could never be passed strikes me as being woefully out of step with the times.

:lol: :lol: When you're right....you're right. Guilty as charged.
I will rephrase....I'd bet it does not happen, but acknowledge it's possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:39 pm 
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national legislation has to have a constitutional hook to be enabled. The SC already eliminated one avenue.

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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:36 pm 
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Interstate Commerce? "No abortion can be performed within the United States if it uses any device or medication with a nexus to interstate commerce."

or how about

"Fetuses, like corporations and some family pets, are people too. Therefore...under the 14th Amendment:

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Roe v Wade
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:42 am 
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Hussra wrote:
Interstate Commerce? "No abortion can be performed within the United States if it uses any device or medication with a nexus to interstate commerce."

or how about

"Fetuses, like corporations and some family pets, are people too. Therefore...under the 14th Amendment:

Image

Image


but this court is also against expansive readings of that

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