Playoff totals .286 .397 .551 .948 3 triples, 2 HR, 6 SB

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Wattabout Kodak Black?

The trade is the definition of a great trade. Move a successful veteran for young guys, and the young guys develop into impact major league players. Regardless as to the team success or lack there of for the White Sox, getting good young players for aging older players is a great trade. Cease will finish in the top 2 of Cy Young voting, and Jimenez has done nothing but hit (.838 OPS) his whole career.

What is strange is for all this shitting on Quintana by the Sox fans, if the Sox would have signed Quintana as a free agent this offseason you're probably looking at a first place White Sox team at this point instead of wasting 20+ starts on Keuchel, Velasquez, etc. Quintana would have the 3rd best ERA on the Sox staff.

I appreciated him. But what do I know. I appreciate Giolito too.

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Wattabout Kodak Black?

He's no Willie Smith.

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You know me like that.

I always liked Quintana. I had many a “is Q better than Sale arguments” in my day.

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He was good for us. I don't know what the Cubs did to fuck him up. Maybe he didn't respect 60.6

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Wattabout Kodak Black?

He was great that 2nd half for the Cubs. He has mostly sucked since then.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He was and is a .500 pitcher. On a good team he'll be a little better. On a bad team he'll be a little worse. He usually gets to the point where the game is on the line and he can't make a pitch he needs to make. That's why all his numbers are similar to or better than Mark Buehrle's except the one that really counts.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It was a good trade for the Cubs because it was what the Cubs wanted. He solidified the rotation for the rest of the contention window. He was very good with the Cubs, and most importantly, he was stellar against the main rival Milwaukee.

They had no room for Eloy at the time. They were stacked. Losing Cease is the tougher part but at the time he was considered an 'OK' prospect.

If Quintana woulda sucked with the Cubs, then it woulda been a terrible trade for them.

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I saw him in spring training with the Cubs. I saw his stuff and it was top of the rotation stuff. He was going to be the first home grown ace in a very long time. Saw Jimenez in spring training too. He took horrible routes on fly balls and looked terrible in the outfield. But he could rake. Man, that guy can hit. But he should never be anything but a DH. Not only because he isn't a good outfielder, but to avoid injuries. Too valuable with the bat to risk the injuries.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Overall I agree, but Buehrle had way better control and accuracy than Quintana. 162 average Quaintana walks a hell of a lot more than Buehrle...that's pretty significant.

The only valid comp between Buerhle and Quintana is that they were both Left handed starting pitchers and both played for the White Sox.

Quintana is a great example, though supporting your argument on Wins / Losses.

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Cub fans convinced me. Get me Quintana back.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

That's my point. I don't really believe Buehrle had better control than Quintana in general. Quintana had impeccable control, but he always got to that point in the game where he needed to make a pitch and suddenly he couldn't hit the spot. And that manifests itself in the .7 per 9 difference in their walk rates.

Where Buerhle would roll a guy up to escape from a tough seventh inning and end up winning 2-1, Quintana would issue his second walk of the game and the next guy would hit one off the wall and he'd lose 3-2 and his fans would complain about a "lack of run support."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The quintessential Quintana game/inning;

April 22, 2016 against Texas. Sox score 3 runs in the 6th to make it a 5-0 lead.
Quintana starts the 7th with a double, then a single, followed by a walk. Now Texas has the bags packed with nobody out.
Then, this happens


Now maybe you could say Ventura should have gone to the bullpen after the second batter, which would be a fair point. But regardless without the sheer luck and bad baserunning by Texas, there is no way Quintana/the Sox get out of the inning with the score any worse than 5-3.

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You just described a pitcher that does NOT have impeccable control...hence the walks.

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this was a pretty solid trade i think

Quintana had MANY games where he gave up 1 or 2 runs, and the Sox scored 1 or 0 runs. Those games were blended with the handful of stinkers he had in the minds of people who didn't want to like him. In reality, Quintana gave up 3 or fewer runs in the overwhelming majority of his outings with the Sox. The Sox scored 2 or fewer runs in most of his losses.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

got some stats to back all that up ?

This again

Q was 50-54 as a Sox starter. He would win if the Sox scored a bunch of runs, or if everything went perfectly and every play was made and there was zero that went wrong.

He would lose more often than not. Other than a few games vs the Brewers in 2017, this has been the case for every team he has played on.

This is one of the better trades is Sox history, case closed.

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So basically he faced a lot of pitchers who were better than he was on the days he pitched.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

"Run Support".

I'll show myself out now

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Well, he walks less than a batter per nine more than Buehrle. That batter doesn't even exist in practical terms. He strikes out 8 per game to Buehrle's 5, and his K/BB ratio is about 3 compared to Buehrle's 2.55.

I don't think anyone could reasonably say that Quintana has anything less than exceptional control. Except, of course, at the most important times. Which is why he's a .506 pitcher and Buehrle is a .572 pitcher.

Let me put it this way. If we assembled a room full of modern stats-oriented fans and showed them the stats of Quintana and Buehrle without names and W/L records, I'll say more than half are going to call Quintana the better pitcher.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

On the White Sox, Quintana had 50 wins over 169 starts.
Dylan Cease has 39 wins over 87 starts.
Eloy averages 1 HR every ~18 at bats.


Great trade. One of the best.

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I did. They're likely inside every other Quintana thread.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It's not always black and white. The Sox had a shit offense.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

In 2012 Quintana was 6-6 and the Sox were fourth in runs scored.
In 2013 Quintana was 9-7 and the Sox were last in runs scored.
In 2014 Quintana was 9-11 and the Sox were ninth in runs scored (about league average).
In 2015 Quintana was 9-10 and the Sox were last in runs scored.
In 2012 Quintana was 13-12 and the Sox were eleventh in runs scored.

He seems to post about the same record regardless of what kind of offense his team has.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't know what the overall team RS has to do with Quintana's every 5th day RS. A quick check on his best year, 2016, and his offense scored 22 runs in his 12 losses. You say he couldn't make the pitch he needed to make in high leverage situations. Ok, I hear you. But this pitcher vs pitcher thing, I'm never going to agree, because it's nonsense.

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Wattabout Kodak Black?

Of course it makes sense.

Overall run scoring is a measure of a team's offense. I'm blowing up the baseless argument that Poor Jose Quintana has somehow had worse offenses over the course of his 285 start career than a typical pitcher. Surely, you're not suggesting that Quintana is "unlucky" over almost 300 career starts. Or that his teams refuse to hit on the days he is pitching.

Baseball at its core is a competition between pitchers. Think of it this way. (I don't follow the NFL so I don't really know who is supposed to be good.) Let's say the Chiefs are the best team. The most important guy on that team is Mahomes. Now let's say Mahomes can only start every fourth game. So the Chiefs have a rotation of quarterbacks. Now the Chiefs may only be the best team once every four games.

The starting pitchers are BY FAR the two most important players in any baseball game. And the guy facing Jose Quintana is obviously as good or better than Quintana right around half the time he takes the mound. That's the very definition of "mediocre."

There's no such thing as "run support." All "run support" is is the lesser number of runs allowed by the pitcher(s) facing Quintana than Quintana is allowing himself.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I can add in variables about Mahomes every 5th game start to turn him .500. I won't because he's elite. Q wasn't elite. He was pretty good in his time with us. From a football standpoint, he didn't give away games with fumbles and interceptions.

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Wattabout Kodak Black?

Right. He's a .500 pitcher. I never said he had no value. And he has always been signed at a price where he was valuable based on what he was going to give you. I just take issue with the idea that he is a borderline Hall of Fame pitcher bedeviled throughout his career by a "lack of run support."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don