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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:12 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
well he does look tighter in his moves in those videos. billy ran the team as if it was in contention, so therefore williams was playing in "big" games at the end. giving him iso plays would have been a terrible idea at his progress level. i bet you see him come right of of the gate this season as a starter with a ton of ball handling time (sex implied).


That should have been done when he was rookie. When you look at Melo Ball and Anthony Edwards, to name but a few, the ball was placed in their hands from Day 1 of their rookie years. The Bulls could have did that with Williams but instead they spent most their time trying to figure out what they had in bums like Coby White, which stunted his growth. He has to come on with it this year however. They also have to put him position to show what he has also.

Great players don't go, "Oh well, they won't give me the ball, guess I'm fucked". I'm not saying that's his attitude, but it is a consideration. If he doesn't go 18 and 9 this year, it's more than a consideration.


I'm not going to put a stat line on it. He just needs to take the "step". And I disagree about what "great players" do also. How you're featured within the structure of an offense will often be the determining factor in how you look.

Too much gunning ass Coby White and Zach his first year. Injuries during his 2nd. Talent is there however. That's by far the most important thing for any player.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:10 pm 
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The Missing Link wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
well he does look tighter in his moves in those videos. billy ran the team as if it was in contention, so therefore williams was playing in "big" games at the end. giving him iso plays would have been a terrible idea at his progress level. i bet you see him come right of of the gate this season as a starter with a ton of ball handling time (sex implied).


That should have been done when he was rookie. When you look at Melo Ball and Anthony Edwards, to name but a few, the ball was placed in their hands from Day 1 of their rookie years. The Bulls could have did that with Williams but instead they spent most their time trying to figure out what they had in bums like Coby White, which stunted his growth. He has to come on with it this year however. They also have to put him position to show what he has also.

Great players don't go, "Oh well, they won't give me the ball, guess I'm fucked". I'm not saying that's his attitude, but it is a consideration. If he doesn't go 18 and 9 this year, it's more than a consideration.


I'm not going to put a stat line on it. He just needs to take the "step". And I disagree about what "great players" do also. How you're featured within the structure of an offense will often be the determining factor in how you look.

Too much gunning ass Coby White and Zach his first year. Injuries during his 2nd. Talent is there however. That's by far the most important thing for any player.

Let's just say great players usually come out of the box pretty damn good. Lucky for you, Kawhi isn't one those. You bought yourself another season.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:41 pm 
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Two interrelated things I like seeing in that last link:
1) He is using a little fade to create space for his shot,
2) He is splashing from all over.

The Bulls could really use a contributing Williams to help them take the next step.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:30 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
well he does look tighter in his moves in those videos. billy ran the team as if it was in contention, so therefore williams was playing in "big" games at the end. giving him iso plays would have been a terrible idea at his progress level. i bet you see him come right of of the gate this season as a starter with a ton of ball handling time (sex implied).


That should have been done when he was rookie. When you look at Melo Ball and Anthony Edwards, to name but a few, the ball was placed in their hands from Day 1 of their rookie years. The Bulls could have did that with Williams but instead they spent most their time trying to figure out what they had in bums like Coby White, which stunted his growth. He has to come on with it this year however. They also have to put him position to show what he has also.

Great players don't go, "Oh well, they won't give me the ball, guess I'm fucked". I'm not saying that's his attitude, but it is a consideration. If he doesn't go 18 and 9 this year, it's more than a consideration.


I'm not going to put a stat line on it. He just needs to take the "step". And I disagree about what "great players" do also. How you're featured within the structure of an offense will often be the determining factor in how you look.

Too much gunning ass Coby White and Zach his first year. Injuries during his 2nd. Talent is there however. That's by far the most important thing for any player.

Let's just say great players usually come out of the box pretty damn good. Lucky for you, Kawhi isn't one those. You bought yourself another season.


Didn't really have a 2nd season because of injury. Doesn't count

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:32 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Two interrelated things I like seeing in that last link:
1) He is using a little fade to create space for his shot,
2) He is splashing from all over.

The Bulls could really use a contributing Williams to help them take the next step.


It's the only way that they will. They know what they have in their "big 3", as all have reached their collective ceilings. Williams is the wild card. If he takes that step they could make a deep playoff run. I think he will.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:49 am 
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need to see him playing with ball a little more but that 3% was promising last season. idk about his D living up to kawhi levels tho. pretty huge call to see him being in DPOY convos


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:45 am 
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willhouse9 wrote:
need to see him playing with ball a little more but that 3% was promising last season. idk about his D living up to kawhi levels tho. pretty huge call to see him being in DPOY convos


He may never be the lockdown defender that Kawhi is/was but he definitely has a better offensive skillset than Kawhi did at his age.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:51 am 
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I don't think Zach has hit his ceiling yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:52 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:33 pm 
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How's this dude gonna get out rebounded by Caruso. Power(less) Forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:50 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
How's this dude gonna get out rebounded by Caruso. Power(less) Forward.


I'm not worried!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:01 pm 
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7 points, 0 assist, and 2 rebounds for Triple Single! Still on track to be the next Kawhi? Just Asking Questions!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:28 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
7 points, 0 assist, and 2 rebounds for Triple Single! Still on track to be the next Kawhi? Just Asking Questions!


Still not worried!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:42 am 
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Your boy is soft, Link.
Quote:
The No. 4 overall pick of 2020 told the Sun-Times on Friday that while he doesn’t follow social media or care much about what fans think of him, he’s starting to feel the mounting pressure of playing with All-Stars such as Zach LaVine and DeMar DeRozan and doesn’t quite know where he fits in.

He wasn’t much of a factor in the Bulls’ win over the Heat in the season opener, nor in Friday’s 102-100 loss to the Wizards, in which he had seven points and a rebound in 24 minutes.

So where? That’s what Williams, 21, is trying to figure out.

“I definitely feel it,” he said. “As a player, you know when you play well. . . . Anybody can get the ball and score, but I think it’s tough when you want to win and you play with stars — it’s tough. You’ve got to find different spots that you usually don’t have to find, offensive rebounds, transition, things like that. That’s where I think I have to find my buckets, just being aggressive."

Williams has at times shown an ability to score in bunches, such as when he put up 35 points against the Timberwolves in the finale last season. But that came with DeRozan, LaVine and Nikola Vucevic all sitting out.

“In those games those guys weren’t playing, there were obviously more touches to go around,” Williams said. “That’s not a knock on those guys, because they are who they are. They’re All-Stars, and we need them to get going in order for us to be really good, but it’s just a total different dynamic when those guys are playing and when they’re not. That’s with any team.”


Williams: just STFU and play. Stop thinking, softie.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:19 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Your boy is soft, Link.
Williams: just STFU and play. Stop thinking, softie.


Weak Analysis Vegan. That's what everyone says about players when they don't have anything else to say.

I read that article too and there is some validity to it. They have to feature the kid much more than they do. He doesn't touch the ball nearly enough for a guy they claim to be counting on and making it a "competition" between he and Javonte Green was just stupid on Billy D's part. Javonte Green sucks as a basketball player

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:05 am 
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Dude, 90 percent of what I posted is soft boy's own words. Stop crying about "all stars" on the court make it hard for you to get yours. Just play, Charmin.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:06 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Dude, 90 percent of what I posted is soft boy's own words. Stop crying about "all stars" on the court make it hard for you to get yours. Just play, Charmin.


Again thats weak analysis. Break his game down. The kid can play. All of that "soft" bullshit is what guy's that don't actually ever bother to watch people play say. To hear some people tell it every player is "soft". It's bullshit analysis. The kid hasn't ever been put in a position to succeed. Ever. Put the ball in his hands and get the hell out the way.
When Donovan finally decides that he wants to do this then you will know if he can play or not.

They keep hollering this #4 draft pick bullshit bu continue to use him as if he is a 2nd round draft pick or updrafted free agent. This has been the case since day one.

And if they really wanted to "push" him then Javonte Green ain't the guy to do it with. Go out and get a person that plays his position that is capable of starting at the position if need be. That's how you "push" him if that's what you want to do.
Instead they keep acting as if they believe he's the guy but have yet to ever feature him as if he's the guy. It makes no sense.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:33 am 
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You know, LTG, we often see the mental aspect of the game differently. My critique of you is that you actually don't see the mental component at all. That is why we disagree on Simmons and Irving - both are mentally weak, which is why they are liabilities. You focus on skill, which is obviously very important. There is no argument against Irving, Williams, and Simmons' skillsets (Simmons could improve his skills, but again lacks the mental makeup to do so). My argument is that a weak mental makeup overshadows one's skillset - you can't demonstrate skill and value if you lack the proper mental makeup. In that vein, Williams has to step it up mentally. If he doesn't, he'll flame out.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:43 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
You know, LTG, we often see the mental aspect of the game differently. My critique of you is that you actually don't see the mental component at all. That is why we disagree on Simmons and Irving - both are mentally weak, which is why they are liabilities. You focus on skill, which is obviously very important. There is no argument against Irving, Williams, and Simmons' skillsets (Simmons could improve his skills, but again lacks the mental makeup to do so). My argument is that a weak mental makeup overshadows one's skillset - you can't demonstrate skill and value if you lack the proper mental makeup. In that vein, Williams has to step it up mentally. If he doesn't, he'll flame out.


No I definitely see the "mental" aspect of the game. I just don't overvalue it as you happen to do. And Kyrie isn't soft by the way. That's YOUR opinion and that's what I mean by guys believing that everyone is "soft" to a certain degree.
I don't think he is "soft" I just think up until this point he has deferred to guys that are more established players. At some point that has to end and that is where Donovan comes in. To this point Donovan has failed miserably in this regard imo.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:54 am 
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We call him soft cause he's a power(less) forward that gets 1-2 rebounds a game


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:57 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
We call him soft cause he's a power(less) forward that gets 1-2 rebounds a game


First year in the league he averaged 5 and he actually isn't a power forward either. He is really a 3 that is playing out of position as a 4.

And I still don't think the "soft" label is accurate. As A 19 year old rookie he guarded the best player of the opposing team most nights and took covers 1 on 1 for entire games. That ain't exactly "soft" now is it? Just Asking A Question

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:21 am 
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The Missing Link wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
You know, LTG, we often see the mental aspect of the game differently. My critique of you is that you actually don't see the mental component at all. That is why we disagree on Simmons and Irving - both are mentally weak, which is why they are liabilities. You focus on skill, which is obviously very important. There is no argument against Irving, Williams, and Simmons' skillsets (Simmons could improve his skills, but again lacks the mental makeup to do so). My argument is that a weak mental makeup overshadows one's skillset - you can't demonstrate skill and value if you lack the proper mental makeup. In that vein, Williams has to step it up mentally. If he doesn't, he'll flame out.


No I definitely see the "mental" aspect of the game. I just don't overvalue it as you happen to do. And Kyrie isn't soft by the way. That's YOUR opinion and that's what I mean by guys believing that everyone is "soft" to a certain degree.
I don't think he is "soft" I just think up until this point he has deferred to guys that are more established players. At some point that has to end and that is where Donovan comes in. To this point Donovan has failed miserably in this regard imo.



Maybe soft for Williams is too premature at this point in retrospect. I think the key word above in your post is "defer". He needs to realize it's not about deferring but just being assertive. Being assertive doesn't mean you're being selfish. I think your solution - give the ball to Williams and get out of the way - is naive. Unless you're Shaq or LeBron, no team is going to make a rookie the focal point of the offense. That kind of thing is earned. He has to earn it. He can earn it by being assertive instead of just getting getting good cardio in for his 28 mins a night.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:34 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
You know, LTG, we often see the mental aspect of the game differently. My critique of you is that you actually don't see the mental component at all. That is why we disagree on Simmons and Irving - both are mentally weak, which is why they are liabilities. You focus on skill, which is obviously very important. There is no argument against Irving, Williams, and Simmons' skillsets (Simmons could improve his skills, but again lacks the mental makeup to do so). My argument is that a weak mental makeup overshadows one's skillset - you can't demonstrate skill and value if you lack the proper mental makeup. In that vein, Williams has to step it up mentally. If he doesn't, he'll flame out.


No I definitely see the "mental" aspect of the game. I just don't overvalue it as you happen to do. And Kyrie isn't soft by the way. That's YOUR opinion and that's what I mean by guys believing that everyone is "soft" to a certain degree.
I don't think he is "soft" I just think up until this point he has deferred to guys that are more established players. At some point that has to end and that is where Donovan comes in. To this point Donovan has failed miserably in this regard imo.



Maybe soft for Williams is too premature at this point in retrospect. I think the key word above in your post is "defer". He needs to realize it's not about deferring but just being assertive. Being assertive doesn't mean you're being selfish. I think your solution - give the ball to Williams and get out of the way - is naive. Unless you're Shaq or LeBron, no team is going to make a rookie the focal point of the offense. That kind of thing is earned..


No you're naive if you think that. Neither Ball brother "earned" it at the time the ball was placed in their hands. Neither did Cade Cunningham or Halliburton. Neither did DeAaron Fox or bums like Coby White either.

They simply put the ball in their hands because they were high drafts to see what they could do. Until the Bulls do this you really aren't going to know what what you have in the kid.
And there is nothing to be "assertive" about when you play in an offense where you routinely go double digit possessions without ever touching the ball. For a high draft pick that is borderline criminal.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:52 am 
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No it's not. DeRozan and lavine were both MVP candidates for the first half of the season last year. The bulls were the no 1 overall team. No coach is going to make Williams - who is a project - the focal point over two MVP candidates. The guys you're mentioning were on bad teams. The bulls aren't a bad team. Williams has to find his way. He's getting the minutes and opportunity (starting) to do so. It's on him to deliver.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:08 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
No it's not. DeRozan and lavine were both MVP candidates for the first half of the season last year. The bulls were the no 1 overall team. No coach is going to make Williams - who is a project - the focal point over two MVP candidates. The guys you're mentioning were on bad teams. The bulls aren't a bad team. Williams has to find his way. He's getting the minutes and opportunity (starting) to do so. It's on him to deliver.


Hold on chief. You mean the very same Zach Lavine that MANY here (including yourself) believed to be a career loser? (The Very same Zach Lavine that MANY including you) were quite happy to see play second fiddle to bum.ass Coby White WHEN HE WAS AN UNTESTED ROOKIE? That Zach Lavine?

You don't have to make the PAW a focal point right now, but you have to "involve him in the offense" more than you do for the Javonte Green's Coby White's and even Ayo's of the world. Why? Because you have a helluva lot more invested in him that you do them. On most nights the kid isn't even a 6th or 7th option on offense. There are been bench guys that they "feature" more than him.

And as previously stated, if the Bulls are going to take the "next step" as a team the ONLY way that it is going to happen is if that kid takes the STEP as a player. With the way they utilize him now there is no way that is going to happen

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:30 pm 
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I had hopes for Williams but I think he's probably a bust. This should be his breakout season and he isn't showing anything yet.

Hope I'm wrong. I have money on him.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:44 pm 
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I still don't like Lavine and strongly opposed signing him. I love DeRozan. This is a 20 win team without him

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:29 pm 
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He looked good in the last game of the year in which neither team was trying. He also had good stats in two blowout losses in the playoffs. Needs to be under no pressure to play well.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:51 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
He looked good in the last game of the year in which neither team was trying. He also had good stats in two blowout losses in the playoffs. Needs to be under no pressure to play well.


He also looked good to very good at times when the team's 2 main ball stoppers were not in the game too.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:35 pm 
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A solid 4,3 and 0 in 15 minutes tonight.

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