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Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

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veganfan21

Post subject: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:18 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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As of Jan 2023

Tier 1:

Burrow, Mahomes

Tier 2:

Allen, Hurts, Herbert

Tier 3:

Tua, Cousins, Lamar, Lawrence, Prescott, Rodgers

Tier 4:

Brady, Carr, Goff, Smith, Jones

Tier 5:

everyone else

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RFDC

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:25 pm

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
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I would say that is pretty fair look. The only one that I would consider moving is I think Lawrence is on the verge of tier 2.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:25 pm

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Immortal Tier:
Brady

Tier 1:
Mahomes and Burrow

Tier 2:
Allen and Jackson

Tier 3:
Herbert and Hurts

Tier 4: Doesn't matter

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Nardi

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:27 pm

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If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

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RFDC

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:27 pm

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 57238

Clearly Brady is on the top tier as the GOAT.

But I think he is talking as of right now where they all stand. Brady is not near tier 1 at the moment.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:34 pm

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RFDC wrote:

Clearly Brady is on the top tier as the GOAT.

But I think he is talking as of right now where they all stand. Brady is not near tier 1 at the moment.

Excluding Brady, I think there are 6 really good to great quarterbacks in the NFL. After those 6, I think the next 10 or so are interchangeable. We'll see what happens with Lawrence and others next season.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:41 pm

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Nardi wrote:

If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

We have seen Jared Goff, Matthew Stafford, Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco, and a degraded Peyton Manning all start a Super Bowl fairly recently. I went back ten years. None of those guys would have been top 5/6 in the league at the time.

You can get to and possibly win a Super Bowl with a tier 2, possibly even a tier 3 guy.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:05 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nardi wrote:

If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

Yep, but you probably have to have an exceptional defense/running game component. Here the last 23 years of SBs and their QBs:

Quote:

Super Bowl XXXIV
Kurt Warner | St. Louis Rams (tier 1)
Steve McNair | Tennessee Titans (tier 2)
Super Bowl XXXV
Trent Dilfer | Baltimore Ravens (no tier)
Kerry Collins | New York Giants (no tier)
Super Bowl XXXVI
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 2 at this time?)
Kurt Warner | St. Louis Rams (tier 1)
Super Bowl XXXVII
Brad Johnson | Tampa Bay Buccaneers (no tier)
Rich Gannon | Oakland Raiders (tier 2?)
Super Bowl XXXVIII
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Jake Delhomme | Carolina Panthers (tier 3)
Super Bowl XXXIX
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Donovan McNabb | Philadelphia Eagles (tier 1ish?)
Super Bowl XL
Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 3 - he was a limited rookie)
Matt Hasselbeck | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2)
Super Bowl XLI
Peyton Manning | Indianapolis Colts (tier 1)
Rex Grossman | Chicago Bears (no tier)
Super Bowl XLII
Eli Manning | New York Giants (tier 2)
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Super Bowl XLIII
Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 1)
Kurt Warner | Arizona Cardinals (tier 2)
Super Bowl XLIV
Drew Brees | New Orleans Saints (tier 1)
Peyton Manning | Indianapolis Colts (tier 1)
Super Bowl XLV
Aaron Rodgers | Green Bay Packers (tier 1)
Ben Roethlisberger | Pittsburgh Steelers (tier 1)
Super Bowl XLVI
Eli Manning | New York Giants (tier 2)
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Super Bowl XLVII
Joe Flacco | Baltimore Ravens (tier 2)
Colin Kaepernick | San Francisco 49ers (tier 2)
Super Bowl XLVIII
Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2)
Peyton Manning | Denver Broncos (tier 2)
Super Bowl XLIX
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Russell Wilson | Seattle Seahawks (tier 2)
Super Bowl L
Peyton Manning | Denver Broncos (tier 3)
Cam Newton | Carolina Panthers (tier 2)
Super Bowl LI
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Matt Ryan | Atlanta Falcons (tier 1)
Super Bowl LII
Nick Foles | Philadelphia Eagles (no tier)
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Super Bowl LIII
Tom Brady | New England Patriots (tier 1)
Jared Goff | Los Angeles Rams (tier 2)
Super Bowl LIV
Patrick Mahomes | Kansas City Chiefs (tier 1)
Jimmy Garoppolo | San Francisco 49ers (tier 3)
Super Bowl LV
Tom Brady | Tampa Bay Buccaneers (tier 1)
Patrick Mahomes | Kansas City Chiefs (tier 1)
Super Bowl LVI
Joe Burrow | Cincinnati Bengals (tier 2)
Matthew Stafford | Los Angeles Rams (tier 1)

23 SB games, 46 QBs.

Tier breakdown for the 46 QBS:

Tier 1: 22/46
Tier 2: 15/46
Tier 3: 4/46
No tier: 5/46

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Nardi

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:07 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
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Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nardi wrote:

If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:13 pm

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veganfan21 wrote:

Yep, but you probably have to have an exceptional defense/running game component.

Right, I don't necessarily disagree. But if you're playing in the Super Bowl, with rare exceptions, you have at least a middle of the road defense. If you have a top tier QB, you likely have a good run/short passing game anyway because having a Burrow or Brady type opens up so many more options.

You're not going to have a dynasty and you're not likely to make more than one SB with a tier 3-4 QB. But you can make one and win one.

If the Bears build a good D and Fields ends up no more than tier 3, but they win LIX or LX? I'm not gonna complain.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:16 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Yep. If look at all the games above and the tiers I placed the QBs in, you really only start to see tier 1 QBs dominate post- 2008 ish. I guess that makes sense with the trends we've witnessed over the past 15 years that favor passing teams.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:21 pm

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Nardi wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nardi wrote:

If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take.

I was being kind to Herbert and Hurts with my Tier 3. I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Rodgers, Murray, Stafford, Cousins, Dak, Carr, Goff, Lawrence, and Watson would be in that next tier. They're fine to have, but they're also interchangeable in a lot of ways. None of good enough to carry your team beyond a playoff appearance. They need a lot of help and a lot of breaks.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:24 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:32 pm

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Nas wrote:

I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Soon, my friend.

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Nardi

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:34 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
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Nas wrote:

Nardi wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nardi wrote:

If a league has only 6 QB's worth having, it's not a league worth watching.

Absolutely. There are more than 6 guys worth having. Nas' tier 4 , "it doesn't matter", I'll chalk it up to a hot take.

Getting to tier 3 is an accomplishment. I'm just trying to be rational here, so there has to be a tier 4. Otherwise, the Bears have never had a QB who mattered, along with bunches of other teams. If your entire football fandom's basket of eggs is based on tier 1 and 2, it's an empty basket and a sad fandom.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:38 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"

veganfan21 wrote:

Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him.

Rub Mac Jones right on off…any tier.

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:39 pm

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Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nas wrote:

I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Soon, my friend.

I pray that you're right.

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Ca||er Bob

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:40 pm

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Nardi wrote:

it's an empty basket and a sad fandom.

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This Ends in Antioch

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:42 pm

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:05 pm
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Urlacher's missing neck

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:44 pm

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Nas wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nas wrote:

I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Soon, my friend.

I pray that you're right.

He's getting that work in already. I saw a story on the new team president visiting the facility only to find it was really a story praising Fields and his eternal work ethic as he was crushing a workout in the gym. Not as good as the vacation treadmill piece but there is plenty of time for them to write a dozen or so of those before camp starts.

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This Ends in Antioch

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:46 pm

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:05 pm
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:

Nas wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nas wrote:

I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Soon, my friend.

I pray that you're right.

Is there a video of him getting out of his car at Halas Hall before the sun comes up, well before anybody else is working (aside from the media guy taking the video)?

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Caller Bob

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:47 pm

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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:

Nas wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Nas wrote:

I think Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Jackson are the only quarterbacks that can carry a team.

Soon, my friend.

I pray that you're right.

Better than the "No DeVante makes the Packers better"pieces?

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:08 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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pizza_Place: Malnati's

Regular Reader wrote:

veganfan21 wrote:

Forgot about Watson, have to massage the tiers to find a place for him.

Rub Mac Jones right on off…any tier.

That's Daniel - Mac will compete with Mitch for best journeyman backup in the next 1-2 years.

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Regular Reader

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:26 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
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Location: "Across 110th Street"

I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo.

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:31 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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Regular Reader wrote:

I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo.

No love from me, just saying I see him on the Smith, Carr, Goff, etc., level.

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Seacrest

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:02 pm

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This Ends in Antioch wrote:

Can't tackle. :lol:

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IkeSouth

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:45 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:25 pm
Posts: 27055

i think qbs have gotten better over the past few decades but the defenses got betterer

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312player

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:07 pm

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Ain't nobody taking lamar jackson over Hurts.

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312player

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:08 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
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veganfan21 wrote:

Regular Reader wrote:

I’d still pause on the Daniel Jones love. Six seven games aren’t enough imo.

No love from me, just saying I see him on the Smith, Carr, Goff, etc., level.

I do too, he had the worst WRs in the league

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Nas

Post subject: Re: Reorganizing the QB Hierarchy

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:12 pm

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312player wrote:

Ain't nobody taking lamar jackson over Hurts.

Everyone would. Don't let an injured fantasy season cloud your judgment. Hurts couldn't carry an offense if his life depended on it.

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