That's why it will be easy to sell that self driving cars make it safe because other drivers are using it.

They'll also eventually have a car with an assisted driving feature they won't want to be banned and probably can't be banned anyways.

The only real question is when will it become legal to read a book or take a nap while driving. That could take a long time but it will happen eventually.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What Nardi says is correct. Even though there will be far less accidents with self-driving cars, when there is one there will be a hue and cry. It's just like anything else. Perception will trump reality.

Just like the fact that every bike that is on the road instead of a car makes your commute quicker and easier doesn't stop you from flying into an emotional rage when a bike is in front of you for a moment or two.

Just like MANY people believe police kill thousands of black men per year rather than the 15 or so they actually do.

Just like MANY people believe millions died from SARS-Cov-2 infections.

The perception when there is an accident with a self-driving car will be very bad.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

People are lazy and will love not having to drive. Companies will make more money with auto drive cars. Insurance will save money.

For these reasons, there will be no stopping it.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

You guys who think they'll ban or nor ban self driving cars as they kill people or get safer have it all wrong. Whether or not they're safe has nothing to do with whether or not they get banned. It's going to come down to how quickly they buy the politicians. So if they real money is on the ban auto driving they will, even if the tech is there and it saves thousands of lives. If the real money is on the auto driving car industry, it will be touted as miraculous even if a couple thousand busses full of babies get roasted by these cars. The only reason we're having this discussion is because nobody has put up the dough yet

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

For sure, 100%, large vehicles will not be self driving. There's just no way. If they do it like they do planes, where the 'perception' is there's a pilot doing piloting, maybe, but that kinda makes the whole point of saving labor costs moot.

It will be bad for 3 or 4 days. We don't even ban smoking or drinking.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But we do in specific situations.

i don't think you guys are seeing the future correctly. ai is the only reason cars are self driving in any capacity right now, and the amount of money investing into ai is insane. there won't be a ban.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

bad weather is by far the achilles heel for self driving. or even too much sunlight. but that's also true for people. we can't drive well in bad weather either, yet we don't ban it.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

True self driving cars are going to be heavily regulated though. I don't think you can even predict when driverless cars will happen. They'll want a human with a valid license to be able to take over. Driverless cars probably will rely on dedicated lanes on the highway too.

You can't even really ban it. You can ban the practice of not having a driver sitting there. You can make it illegal to read a book or sleep at the wheel but even that won't seem logical once the technology is safe enough that it's better for a car to drive itself then it is a human to be at the wheel. You still can't ban cars that can keep themselves inside the lane and slow down or stop for cars in front of them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah you can. Just because a technology is safer than the alternative does not mean it won't be demonized and banned. Your mistake is thinking that those in control give any fucks about safety or human life.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I'm having a hard time coming up with many good examples of this actually happening. I think you'll see pushback on true driverless cars but people are going to trust the technology fairly quickly in regards to the autopilot modes that have a human there in case things go badly.

Then again, some people think that gas stoves are going to be banned soon.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm sure you'll find some examples if your try.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's not really my job in this discussion as I don't think it will be banned at least in terms of a human operator at least being available to take over.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok. I hear you. I'm only saying that it being safer (potentially) has nothing to do with whether it will be banned or not. It's more about who pays more.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The trucking industry will push hard for driverless trucks. That's the battle ground for banning.

People are going to really like the self driving modes in cars once they get it. We have a car that does adaptive cruise control on the highway and it's awesome. It doesn't steer for you but it accelerates and decelerates pretty smoothly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Driverless cars, to me, means the driver seat is unoccupied. Someone who sits in the seat to "take over if something goes wrong" is a driver.

We are talking about self driving cars though. As I said in my earlier post, driverless cars are going to take a long time to be accepted after people get used to the technology in their own cars where they are involved.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah... I've got adaptive cruise control in my truck. It's ok I guess. I only used it while driving to Florida. Generally, I never use it unless it's a 5 or 6 hour trip or more.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

isnt that where it leaves too much room in front of you and people keep sneaking in, pushing you back, forever and ever until you eventually never get to where you're going?

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Maybe insert some road rage into the AI.

Didn't work like that for me but I don't use it a whole lot.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

why not? i love cruise control, i use it all the time, but super annoying that seemingly nobody else does, so i have to keep bumping the button up and down. just pick a damn speed and stick with it people. they can't. it's impossible for them to.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

thats nice of darkside to help after tommy helped hawg get a job.

this place is becoming a job recruitment site.

Someone better be getting a commission!

There is a HUGE difference between self-driving cars and self-driving trucks.

Self driving trucks have what is called an operational design domain (ODD). They can't go just anywhere, they aren't going to be making deliveries on Irving Park Road. They are mostly depot to depot trips on Interstate or similar highways, typically avoiding major city centers. Think the outskirts of Dallas to the outskirts of Tucson. They will have a full inspection every day that is nearly identical to the ones that the cops do at weigh stations, the AV manufacturers are paying to have training classes developed and delivered by the same organization which standardizes training for the truck safety enforcement cops.

The ODD makes the mapping a hell of a lot easier. They know every inch of those roads, and they know instantaneously if something is not right. e The other big difference is that the trolley problem (do I kill my occupants or the bus load of 7th graders) is easier, as the truck will take evasive action and drive itself off the highway if needed, it's only stuff.

All of the major AV truck developers agree that it's at least 20 years to get to a point where an unlimited driving environment is going to make either financial or political sense. But trucks are running five to seven days a week as long as the weather is acceptable between depots.

Source: I spent 2.5 years supporting a committee that developed the truck inspection standards to a level that would pass muster with the state cops, with the Feds, and ultimately with the politicians. I was the primary author of a policy report looking at the workflow of how these trucks could safety bypass truck inspection weigh stations. There is a solid mix of large Democratic and Republican states involved in this industry. Money is no object, which is totally different than most trucking companies, especially small ones. It is a fundamental change in the inspection industry, which has been focused for years on identifying and isolating undercapitalized carriers and the lousy drivers they inevitably end up having to hire.

There are final pilots being done right now, for example:
https://cdllife.com/2023/company-says-t ... n-by-2024/

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

that seems to be the problem gen 1 self-driving cars ran into in the 2015-2016 testing--stupid human drivers/pedestrians/bike riders doing unexpected/irrational shit. Ford/Argo, GM/Cruise and Google/Waymo all ramping up self-driving car testing with their latest gen tekmologies. Better cameras/better software/better stupid human shit detectors should make the latest gen safer; but it's impossible for these self-driving vehicle platforms to completely account for the vagaries of human (mis)behavior.

The tests I read about in Europe involved like a half-a-dozen self driving trucks moving in a pod or convoy type formation where they were linked to each other by wireless networking as well as linked back to a central control/monitoring center. iirc, they only had a driver in maybe the lead vehicle? Or maybe the lead and trail vehicle. If you could reduce driver head count from 6 to 1 or 2 to move 6 trucks long distances and not have those 1 or 2 humans required to do much except be there, it's a huge win for the trucking industry--which until 3-D printing takes over transport/trucking expense is a substantial factor in the cost of goods in the United States

They call that "truck platooning" - California has been really interested in it to reduce congestion and emissions around the three southern ports (LA, Long Beach, San Diego). They want it to be interoperable across fleets and be like an adaptive cruise control on steroids.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

so state LE/state cops and state legislatures have a say as to what's kosher on interstates through their jurisdictions? That seems like recipe for a hold-out luddite state like Nebraska or Kansas or Kentucky or wherever to throw a monkey wrench in the process of rolling these technologies out nationally. you'd think the feds would pull rank on the states for the interstate highways at least and have exclusive say to make rules for running trucks on interstates.

He didn't say she was sick. Maybe the 200K was for HUGE