never take on an unwinnable fight

there are times where my wife would complain about something he does and if I even agree with her it becomes "why do you say bad things about my parents...". I don't like to correct either my dad or FIL in front of my boys because they will learn that's how they can treat me for the very few bad personality traits I might have

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I would think there is a suitable middle ground between an all out war on the inlaws-- an unwinnable fight-- and jumping to his service whenever he rattles an empty tumbler at you.


Or, give him the patented Chicago/Midwestern bat signal of 'party's over' which is firmly saying, "Welp," while slapping your hands on your lap as you rise from you seat.

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You gave me great advice for my son about Polish girls and their mothers. I wish we knew each other before you married an irish girl.

It sounds like it's time to have a conversation with you FIL. Respectfully, but done as a necessity for the good upbringing of your sons.

I will say this, even if it's done privately, it will probably be known publicly within the in laws family. But do not let this dissuade you from speaking to him.

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The ethnicity of the parties involved is irrelevant to me. My wife's family has Polish, Irish, and Russian components, and all of these various factions have tried to steamroll me at various points. I let them know this isn't going to happen with varying degrees of assertiveness, as is called for by the situation.

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I couldn't disagree more. Don't fuck with the FIL. The cascade resulting from it is too unpredictable.

His sons talk to him. No one in the family is under any delusions. And, the truth is, he's a good guy. I get along with him. I have a much better relationship with my in laws than most people I know. When push comes to shove, I know all of them would have my back. My brothers and sisters in law are all great and I hang out with them. We're a family. There's some craziness and I don't really have anywhere else to bitch. I don't talk about it to my family because I'd hate for them to get the wrong image and let it affect how they treat them...and we do stuff that probably annoys them.

We just have a fundamental misunderstanding about how long a party should last.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They probably assumed you gave your entire staff Juneteenth off.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

my principle secretary came in this morning and asked why it was so empty downtown

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Give an Irish Goodbye.

Something like this -

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You know me like that.

This is fantastic advice.

It's like throwing a boomerang. Kind of fun and therapeutic to throw it but it comes back just as fast and more dangerously.

It goes to FIL to MIL to wife and back to you and now Ms. Good Dolphin will take all that out and more on you.

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You know me like that.

It's nice to hear secretaries still have their principles.

But still, despite their principles, are still OK with being called secretaries.

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You know me like that.

I understand it, but I've struggled with this my entire life. As an adult, I've generally tried to avoid confrontations. That said, when I am pushed far enough, I always respond. I still try to remove myself before it happens

I've invited my kids to respectfully question/challenge me since birth. My oldest daughter is the only one who has generally taken me up on it. It's her default reaction to nearly anything I say. It's a running joke in house. Respectfully is the key word.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Expecting something like, "Hey would you mind getting me a refill," is not asking anything beyond a modicum of respect. I don't care of its your kid, wife, parent, or in law. Shaking a glass and expecting someone to jump and take care of it is ridiculous.

Asking/demanding that parties wrap up at a reasonable hour, especially on a work/school night when you are hosting, is not an unwinnable battle either.

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I struggled with it early for quite a while. I basically moved out when I was 18 and lived independently for a decade.

My Dad passed away in 1997. I always just called him "Dad" so when I asked what I should call my FIL, I wasn't comfortable calling him Dad, because my Dad was Dad and it had been less than a year.

Fortunately, due to our cultural differences there was another title I could use. But it was hard to have another figure tell me what to do after I'd been relatively successful living on my own, making my own rules, making my own decisions for 10 years.

It was definitely an adjustment period and, at times, rocky. But it got all sorted out when I just came to understand that everybody wants the same thing, mostly. LOL.

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You know me like that.

I get what you are saying Doc. My wife was raised by her mother, her biological father has never been a part of her life. Then after we were married for close to 10 years my MIL got married to a guy and he suddenly wanted to be a really active FIL in our lives and wanted to direct things and run our lives. It was a really rough transition. Thankfully things have calmed down. But as you all know around here he is quite the guy and we still have our moments. But overall he has definitely been a net positive for our family and provided some laughs for the board.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

to have regular carnal relations with his daughter?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

And how to respectfully ask for alcohol too.

I'm sure he is a good guy because he is one of us.

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My Complaints Department is overstaffed.

You have quite the mind, gd. LOL.

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You know me like that.

Fortunately, my Dad is really good about staying out of my business. As a kid I recall him getting really annoyed with my Grandparents trying to tell him how to live. I recall him erupting once at my Grandfather over him meddling.

My Mom would love nothing more than to direct things and "be involved". I locked that shit down many years ago in my early 20's. I'm not having it.

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thats awesome

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

My parents stay out of our business for the most part. Mostly because my Dad's parents example. Now, the Colonel (Dad's dad) mom was an absolute tyrant to my grandmother so that was probably the catalyst of grandmother Squirrel's hands off approach. Or she was a cold Scottish person.. Could go either way.

My father in law was a difficult man to get along with. I didn't have to hop too when he was around but I had to bite my tongue on occasion because.. well, he could be an ass.He was also one of the most supportive people I have ever had in my life if you could get over his approach and take the occasional nastiness. He knew almost everyone of my buttons to push and he would sometimes delight in doing it. When he passed last month a friend asked me how I felt about it. I replied that I didn't have to deal with him giving me a hard time anymore... And I didn't get to have him give me a hard time either. Still have expect that phone to ring with his familiar voice on the other side. Was always the moment of waiting if it was angry Ed, or friendly Ed... No matter what, I was going to hear about something. It's how he showed he cared, or so I'm told. I semi believe it.

There are a lot of things a dude can only really learn from another male, mostly how to behave as a dude in social situation, how to deal with male to male conflicts reasonably, and most notably, how to lead a family.
'