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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:12 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
What have you seen from Fields that makes you believe he'll be fine?

And for the record I have doubts about Fields. But I am not paying attention to anything in camp or preseason games. I want to see the first few games. That will tell the story. I hope he can progress into a solid NFL QB, but I would not bet on that at the moment.


Exactly.


Why are you complaining that others essentially feel the same way? We see his physical tools. MANY of us haven't thrown in the towel. We just didn't see anything this offseason that said he took another step.


what did you see this off season that said he didn't take a step

The point is, you are making conclusions about progress based on almost no reliable information.

If you want to discuss his production in previous years, I may not agree, but at least we are using real data. You are treating these practices as if they have even close to similar reliability and that the sources you have read are valid


Last season is my baseline. I saw a guy who was electric running, but doubted his eyes as a passer. From all the data I've collected over the offseason, that hasn't changed. How often does a quarterback struggle in the offseason and play great when the season starts?


often

what data have you collected? There is so much imperfection to pre season information it should be given next to no weight. Even if you, or the person whose info you rely upon, watched every single pre season throw (which they don't) that still doesn't provide very reliable information.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:24 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
[

you base your opinion regarding his progress from the end of last year on second or third hand information from guys who are sweating off a hard night of drinking, most of whom don't know proper mechanics for throwing or what is trying to be accomplished each day of practice


And yet their opinions are more informed than yours. But maybe you're right: perhaps it was Fields goal in training camp to struggle in drills designed to favor the offense and consistently fail to miss open receivers. I guess that's why Bagent is playing behind him. Because he was doing the opposite.


which practices did you watch that you can say from your own observations that he struggled?


:lol:

Why does this matter? If Fields looked good, you would be creaming in your pants and starting a million threads here about it. You're struggling now because your Bears fantasy world is imploding.



I wouldn't know whether he looked good or not from pre season, just as I didn't think Wright was certain for greatness, Roschon Johnson would start the year as the starting running back, Tyler Scott would blow up the league, or any other number of takes that came from on site observers of training camp.

I'm not struggling with anything. If he's bad, so be it. We have two first round picks with which to correct it next year. But I'm certainly not going rely on highly imperfect second hand information to draw a conclusion.


Earlier in this thread you projected significant improvement for Fields based on no evidence whatsoever, yet you inexplicably criticize others for relying on "imperfect" anecdotal evidence to inform their opinions while simultaneously portraying yourself as a paragon of clear-headed analysis. Good dolphin, who ya crappin'? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:31 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
[

you base your opinion regarding his progress from the end of last year on second or third hand information from guys who are sweating off a hard night of drinking, most of whom don't know proper mechanics for throwing or what is trying to be accomplished each day of practice


And yet their opinions are more informed than yours. But maybe you're right: perhaps it was Fields goal in training camp to struggle in drills designed to favor the offense and consistently fail to miss open receivers. I guess that's why Bagent is playing behind him. Because he was doing the opposite.


which practices did you watch that you can say from your own observations that he struggled?


:lol:

Why does this matter? If Fields looked good, you would be creaming in your pants and starting a million threads here about it. You're struggling now because your Bears fantasy world is imploding.



I wouldn't know whether he looked good or not from pre season, just as I didn't think Wright was certain for greatness, Roschon Johnson would start the year as the starting running back, Tyler Scott would blow up the league, or any other number of takes that came from on site observers of training camp.

I'm not struggling with anything. If he's bad, so be it. We have two first round picks with which to correct it next year. But I'm certainly not going rely on highly imperfect second hand information to draw a conclusion.


Earlier in this thread you projected significant improvement for Fields based on no evidence whatsoever, yet you inexplicably criticize others for relying on "imperfect" anecdotal evidence to inform their opinions while simultaneously portraying yourself as a paragon of clear-headed analysis. Good dolphin, who ya crappin'? :lol:



I project improvement based on a belief that he will have a progression typically seen in players from year 1-2 and then year 2-3.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:31 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:

Last season is my baseline. I saw a guy who was electric running, but doubted his eyes as a passer. From all the data I've collected over the offseason, that hasn't changed. How often does a quarterback struggle in the offseason and play great when the season starts?


often

what data have you collected? There is so much imperfection to pre season information it should be given next to no weight. Even if you, or the person whose info you rely upon, watched every single pre season throw (which they don't) that still doesn't provide very reliable information.


My eyes, the players, the coaches, the GM, and countless reports from the media. He's still not trusting his eyes. That makes him late and inaccurate.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:31 am 
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Also this...

good dolphin wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Josh Schrock provides a pretty good overview of the practices against the Colts:

Quote:
On first down, Fields dropped back and tried to hit running back Khalil Herbert on a quick pass to the left out of the backfield. Fields' throw was a little off-target,


Its mind blowing how this keeps happening. It was the same issue last year when he would throw on screens and be behind the guy. Isn't this just a footwork issue and how haven't they been able to fix it, or how hasn't he adjusted yet?


I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:36 am 
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Fields signed with Reebok this morning. I didn't know they were still around.

Time to question Fields judgment?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:39 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Fields will be fine. People here want to prematurely bury him so that their preconceptions from two years ago will finally be proven correct.


You are projecting. MANY thought Fields would be great, and they've slowly started to doubt him. What evidence do you have that he'll be fine?

:lol: You doubt Fields and believe in the Sox to make the playoffs next year.

I love you Nas, please dont every change!


I've been objective when it comes to Fields. I'll still have his jersey on on Sunday. I also doubt anyone wants him to be Mahomes or Warren Moon more than me. You should be able to recognize the difference between a hot take and objectivity. What have you seen from Fields that makes you believe he'll be fine?


He progressed by every single metric between year 1 and 2. I expect further progression. Some of you treat training camp and pre season like this is your first time seeing it.


Dan Wiederer had some metrics that disprove that. The scariest being, since sacks started being recorded in 1982, Fields had the fourth worst sack rating. Think about that. 40+ QBs a year, 40 years, he's 1,596 of 1,600+. I highly doubt the OL was that historically bad.

In the fourth quarter last year, Fields scored on 1 of 12 drives when having a chance to tie or take the lead. The 1 score was based on Roquan intercepting the ball at the 15 and then a FG after three plays.

I get what you are saying. 2022 was 2022 and we haven't started 2023. Maybe the pre-season and the training camp concerns coming out of reporters is all because Fields doesn't practice well. Maybe come game time on Sunday, he's locked in and it just all clicks and all this practice stuff is bullshit. I just don't know. But I also don't think you can say he's progressed by every single metric between year 1 and 2.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:42 am 
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Another thing Wiederer mentioned. The Bears were consistently in garbage time last year by the 3rd and 4th quarter. With the opposing team likely scaling back and dropping into coverage, Fields still couldn't feed consistently. Even (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky could perform in garbage time.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:45 am 
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good dolphin wrote:


I project improvement based on a belief that he will have a progression typically seen in players from year 1-2 and then year 2-3.


Which players? Why is Fields like them? Do they have the same issues that Fields did with reading defenses, throwing mechanics and an anomalously high sack rate? Did their coaches protect them to the same extent that Getsy protected Fields in the passing game, particularly by choosing to run in obvious passing situations? Why should this comparison be considered valid in any way whatsoever?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:48 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:


I project improvement based on a belief that he will have a progression typically seen in players from year 1-2 and then year 2-3.


Which players? Why is Fields like them? Do they have the same issues that Fields did with reading defenses, throwing mechanics and an anomalously high sack rate? Did their coaches protect them to the same extent that Getsy protected Fields in the passing game, particularly by choosing to run in obvious passing situations? Why should this comparison be considered valid in any way whatsoever?


Good Dolphin gets his opinions from ESPN analysts.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:48 am 
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Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Fields will be fine. People here want to prematurely bury him so that their preconceptions from two years ago will finally be proven correct.


You are projecting. MANY thought Fields would be great, and they've slowly started to doubt him. What evidence do you have that he'll be fine?

:lol: You doubt Fields and believe in the Sox to make the playoffs next year.

I love you Nas, please dont every change!


I've been objective when it comes to Fields. I'll still have his jersey on on Sunday. I also doubt anyone wants him to be Mahomes or Warren Moon more than me. You should be able to recognize the difference between a hot take and objectivity. What have you seen from Fields that makes you believe he'll be fine?


He progressed by every single metric between year 1 and 2. I expect further progression. Some of you treat training camp and pre season like this is your first time seeing it.


Dan Wiederer had some metrics that disprove that. The scariest being, since sacks started being recorded in 1982, Fields had the fourth worst sack rating. Think about that. 40+ QBs a year, 40 years, he's 1,596 of 1,600+. I highly doubt the OL was that historically bad.

In the fourth quarter last year, Fields scored on 1 of 12 drives when having a chance to tie or take the lead. The 1 score was based on Roquan intercepting the ball at the 15 and then a FG after three plays.

I get what you are saying. 2022 was 2022 and we haven't started 2023. Maybe the pre-season and the training camp concerns coming out of reporters is all because Fields doesn't practice well. Maybe come game time on Sunday, he's locked in and it just all clicks and all this practice stuff is bullshit. I just don't know. But I also don't think you can say he's progressed by every single metric between year 1 and 2.


We've been through the fourth quarter stuff. Fields wasn't always good. I saw Pettis, St. Brown and Smith-Marsette (remember him) all end good looking drives dropping nearly perfect throws. Those guys are now WR 7 on their respective teams.

Fields took a lot of sacks, no question.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:56 am 
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BD wrote:
Fields signed with Reebok this morning. I didn't know they were still around.

Time to question Fields judgment?


Still around, but stuck in the 80's. I bought these for the girl's pre-teen-ish daughter for her b-day last year:

Image

she wore them not once. still wrapped in the original tissue in the box prolly in the back of her closet. asked the gf about it and she scolded me
for buying the kid anything other than Jordans. Image


here's Fields Reebok collection: https://www.reebok.com/c/600000097/coll ... tin_fields


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:01 am 
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BD wrote:
Fields signed with Reebok this morning.


Presumably he is endorsing their new line of running shoes?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:32 pm 
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Run? Run where?

Down the hall of the retirement home to make it to bingo on time:

Image

Or stumbling along the sidewalk with your mittens tied to your wrists racing to catch the short bus:

Image






the shoes Spaulding wore to try out for the cheerleading squad:

Image


must be Fields signature kicks in roughly-vaguely-not-really Bears colors:

Image


you can get the same styles (prior gen) as Fields signature shoe for 50 to 80 dollars instead of 150


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:41 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
BD wrote:
Fields signed with Reebok this morning.


Presumably he is endorsing their new line of running shoes?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:52 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 5:17 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

Dolphin would be proud of your use of the quote function.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 5:26 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

Dolphin would be proud of your use of the quote function.

Sorry

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 5:31 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

Dolphin would be proud of your use of the quote function.

Sorry


don't say sorry. wear it proudly. fuck em

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:05 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

Dolphin would be proud of your use of the quote function.

Sorry


don't say sorry. wear it proudly. fuck em

Ok...sorry.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:29 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I'm no coach but that's what it looks like to me. He swings the front leg towards the backfield rather than keeping it in line. The leg then opens the shoulders. You should be able to draw a straight line from the shoulders to the point you want to deliver. His shoulders almost square up to the point he wants to hit. The throw becomes more of a flick. He ends up being inaccurate, making the receiver change his momentum from forward leaning to backward leaning just to catch the ball. Even if caught, it minimizes the effectiveness of the play
Half of Aaron Rodgers passes are as it's described. Mahomes also.

Dolphin would be proud of your use of the quote function.

Sorry


don't say sorry. wear it proudly. fuck em

Ok...sorry.


You shouldn't apologize on this board, they can smell fear

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:

Last season is my baseline. I saw a guy who was electric running, but doubted his eyes as a passer. From all the data I've collected over the offseason, that hasn't changed. How often does a quarterback struggle in the offseason and play great when the season starts?


often

what data have you collected? There is so much imperfection to pre season information it should be given next to no weight. Even if you, or the person whose info you rely upon, watched every single pre season throw (which they don't) that still doesn't provide very reliable information.


My eyes, the players, the coaches, the GM, and countless reports from the media. He's still not trusting his eyes. That makes him late and inaccurate.



Funny shit. The only source that you identify is yourself. the rest is all total crap that you make up to bloviate with.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:01 am 
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Guess the good thing is that we will all see for ourselves on Sunday, but I do suppose the mental masturbation taking place here is somehow therapeutic for some of the posters.

Looking forward to the CFMB 2024 NFL Draft Guide because we certainly get some wildly different takes from the posters here.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:27 am 
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Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:07 pm 
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ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


Yeah, this is a painful comparison for the Fields faithful. Mills isn't very good, but he's still a significantly better passer than Fields--and with a far lower sack rate.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:30 pm 
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ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


While overall inconsequential to the point being made, I couldn't help noticing that 5-19-1 does not add up to 26 starts?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:51 pm 
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a retard wrote:
ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


While overall inconsequential to the point being made, I couldn't help noticing that 5-19-1 does not add up to 26 starts?



Missed that when I read it....lifted that from here

https://www.vsin.com/nfl/lombardi-when- ... e-the-lie/


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:18 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


Yeah, this is a painful comparison for the Fields faithful. Mills isn't very good, but he's still a significantly better passer than Fields--and with a far lower sack rate.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that when Mills was playing no one was saying he has no one to throw to, he has no time, he’s on bad teams, what do you expect?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:31 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


Yeah, this is a painful comparison for the Fields faithful. Mills isn't very good, but he's still a significantly better passer than Fields--and with a far lower sack rate.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that when Mills was playing no one was saying he has no one to throw to, he has no time, he’s on bad teams, what do you expect?


They would have looked foolish if the did because he had Laremy Tunsil blocking for him as he threw to Brandin Cooks

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:41 pm 
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Posts: 81442
Tall Midget wrote:
ShortTimeLurker wrote:
Davis Mills: 28 games (26 starts), 5,782 yards, 33 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, 63.6 % completions and 62 sacks. His team is 5-19-1 in his starts.

Justin Fields: 27 games (25 starts), 4,112 yards, 24 touchdowns and 21 interceptions, 59.7% completions and 91 sacks. His team is 5-20 in his starts.


Yeah, this is a painful comparison for the Fields faithful. Mills isn't very good, but he's still a significantly better passer than Fields--and with a far lower sack rate.


Do Trevor Lawrence faithful feel a similar pain?

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