ouch!

the rebuild was destroyed in that off season. We struck out on two superstars. We were stuck with two bum brother in laws. Despite promises, the money was never spent.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The rebuild was destroyed when Moncada, Jimenez, Vaughn, and Robert weren't good enough/healthy enough to form the nucleus of a good team. If Bryce Harper were on this team it would still suck.

Who himself has also been hurt a lot

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Outside of 2022, he's been pretty healthy

I agree with that. First, the team obviously has a culture problem. I'm not in the clubhouse. I don't know who is to blame. But there are guys getting paid big salaries who can't seem to figure it out.

Another complete rebuild should be out of the question. You tanked to get these guys, now you have to live with them and hope for the best. You have to go with Moncada-Robert-Jimenez in the middle of the order and hope they can stay on the field and that at least two of them can have big years.

I don't understand the fascination with Vaughn. I'd be looking to improve at first base.

I would get rid of Anderson. Montgomery is probably not ready, but if you don't expect to contend anyway, why not just put him at short and hope for the best? It's a funny game. Maybe he'll be Rookie of the Year.

You need at least one quality starter who can consistently give you 6+ innings a game. I have no clue what to do with the bullpen, but I think handing out big salaries to relief pitchers should end. It hasn't worked. Just go with cheap live arms.

Getting back to the culture change, I have no beef with signing Perez to catch if you think he's the guy who can get your clubhouse in order. Just don't expect him to give you his best seasons. Those are probably over. If he gives you one, that's gravy.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Would you like to bet that if they do go with those three guys next year, they are collectively better than the Cubs' 3-4-5 hitters?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

They didn’t want to pay Harper $27 million but will pay washed up Perez $21 million.

I'm pretty sure the Cubs can find a "Schwisdom" off the street to outpace Moncada's 1.6 fWAR the past two seasons

I guess you want to make the bet then.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The Cubs thought they had that guy in Bote, and they're paying him $17 million to play in Iowa

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There's no 'fascination' with Vaughn. White Sox will take calls on him. The thought is he's still climbing to his ceiling. He didn't fall off the table, but it certainly wasn't good enough. I've posted statistically he was slightly below average 1B offensively. There's 5 guys his age above him. Defensively, he stinks. Just like 95% of the White Sox.

O RLY? Since Luis Robert's rookie year (2020), Harper has appeared in about 60 more games. He's also had to change positions due to his injuries.

If you're going to say Robert is made of glass (and you have), then you realistically have to say similar things about Harper at this point.

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Honestly? Kenny. How much clubhouse BS happened on his watch? Sale cutting up jerseys, the dysfunction last year and this year, LaRoche's kid. The organization clearly has/had no accountability which is why these things happened. Maybe things will be different now, but I refuse to believe it until proven otherwise.

As a fan, yeah I don't want to see another rebuild. But Texas won 68 games last season and now they are two wins away from a World Series. They spent in free agency this year, but they didn't drop a quarter billion dollars on one player. A 1-2 year turnaround/rebuild does happen. Diamondbacks won 74 games last season, as did the Cubs who were in it through mid September.

Getz is the GM and he has to be given full reign. If he goes into Jerry's office and says, "We can't win with these guys we have to blow it up" then you have to let your GM do so. Again I refuse to believe this is the case until proven otherwise.

Agree. He's acceptable and controllable for now. He's also been a team player and played all over the place on the field. You cannot sign him to a long term deal unless he takes big steps offensively.

I would be fine with this, but you get nothing for him now. Best case is he has a good first half and you can move him for some sort of prospect.

This makes sense, but you saw what they did with Colas. This was a 101 loss team, and they sent the guy down in September to work on his game. 22 year old rookie gets held accountable. That goes back to you culture problem.


Giolito is going to be that guy, or at least presented as that guy. Nobody is going to sign him long term. At best, he gets a two year prove it deal. He would be a good fit on a one year prove it deal for the Sox and the Cubs.

Agree. No issue with bringing in a proven veteran as a backup to help Lee. But you cannot give up anything of consequence or pay a guy like Perez more than a few million.

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Good post, Frank. It's quite a mess that needs to be cleaned up. I can't help but wonder what a Bochy/Mike Maddux would've done for this club. Maybe nothing with what management and ownership that was in place. MLB has never been more full of blueprint guys and less of craftsmanship guys. It's very disappointing.

Props to Caller Bob, he won't make a bet that his weekly allowance can't afford to pay off.

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You keep raising the rent for the space I occupy in your head.


Tralalalalala!

Under Maddux, they wouldn't have walked as many guys thats for sure. The bullpen would have been better as well, but truly it couldn't have been much worse than this year.

At a minimum after the 2021 ALDS, Bochey would have said this team isn't winning without a legit right fielder and another starting pitcher. TLR, imo, didn't care enough to be confrontational or demanding in his old age.

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the rebuild was dead when Moncada was allowed to come to the ballpark high or hungover every day and nobody said anything about it.

The rebuild is dead when HawaiiYou is dead.

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No, that was the effects of Covid

he is the first human being to have constant covid from 2017 - 2023.

You and I reached the same conclusion by taking different roads. I agree that there's a culture problem, but I think the problems with Moncada, Jimenez, and Vaughn (Robert may be a legit star player, let's see if he can do it again) are deeper than that. There are always highly touted players that don't reach their potential, the White Sox just might have happened into three of them at once.

That's why I think there was no coaching hire or series of free agent signings that were going to help this team. When three of your long term heart of the order guys are bad to mediocre, there's not much you can do about that short of getting a new heart of the order.

It does happen, at least the after effects. I know someone who got COVID summer 21 unvaccinated, the COVID went away after a week or two but the damage it did to her is still there and probably will never go away. She used to swim an hour four days a week, and now if she swims for 20 minutes she is near comatose for at least the following two days. Multiple ER trips because at times she can't keep a stable sodium or magnesium level.

That said, I still believe Moncada is not sick but is just on the Anthony Rendon plan, fucking around and content to collect his pay and do as little as possible.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

I just don't think you can junk those guys after you tanked to get them. And I know Moncada is frustrating, but circumstances have to fall right. He'll quite likely end up with a better career than Javy Baez who is a Cub legend. You just need guys to play well at the right time and avoid injury. It's easier said than done.

I don't think it's absurd to believe that you can get 12 WAR from Moncada-Robert-Jimenez in the next year or two. If you get that you're probably going to have a decent team. If you put the right players around them, you could have a really good team. A lot of ifs, I know. But it's a funny game and there are no sure things. I remember when Kris Bryant was a guaranteed first ballot Hall of Famer. Now it looks like he's Kevin Youkilis.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

From what I heard..... They did that whole thing at the United Center with Harper then didn't go back to him because of some under the table handshake with the Phillies. They thought they were gonna steal Machado for cheap and not have the Phillies bid up the price by leaving Harper alone.

I know Moncada would reel me in with that late season dead cat bounce

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

My guess is they hold on to all of them and cross their fingers. I would like to see them trade Vaughn and Jimenez for somebody else's underperforming players and see if that shakes anything up. I think if they got a combined WAR of six out of Jimenez, Moncada, and Vaughn next year, they would be lucky.

I think that's what you have to do. It's not like these guys are complete busts. They've shown they can hit in the big leagues. They just need to put it together at the same time.

And I don't think any of these bums should be untouchable. Not even Robert. If the right deal is there, move them.

It isn't easy to win a World Series. You have to try to win one every year. When you fantasize about tanking followed by dynasty, that's usually what it is- a fantasy. Look at the Cub juggernaut.

That's why it's a mistake to look at your "bright future." There is no future in baseball. It's a funny game. Next year you'll probably lose to the Twins. You have to do EVERYTHING possible to win when you have a chance. You don't sit Strasburg while fantasizing about all his future Cy Youngs and your future World Series wins. You don't hang on to Jackson Holliday when Dylan Cease or Justin Verlander could have won you the World Series this year.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don