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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:45 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Poptimism stood in contrast to the line of thinking that if you didn't like Revolver and Pet Sounds you were a dilettante and a philistine, which was also bullshit.

Well, I don't know about that one. You can't be like "teehee I just like when popular songs are good" and not love "Wouldn't It Be Nice."


What exactly are you arguing here? Are you saying that anyone who is serious about music has to like Pet Sounds? That it's not negotiable?



I understand that current artists still release "albums" as in collections of songs, but I would argue that they aren't albums in the same way Pet Sounds or Let It Be are. Does anyone listen to an "album" from start to finish anymore? Does the sequencing even matter?


How many albums are worthy of repeated start to finish listens? I came of age in the CD era, so it was always very tempting to skip. I would say maybe 1/5 of the albums I own are start to finish worthy.

In terms of sequencing, albums with notable sequencing are even fewer and farther between than albums that stand up to repeated start to finish listening.


Well, I ask the question, because let's just take the Replacements' Let It Be, for example. "Tommy Get His Tonsils Out" and "Gary's Got A Boner" aren't songs I would typically listen to, they're filler at best. But as part of the larger artistic whole, the album would not be the same without them. They play a part and serve a purpose.

I would say the same thing about Pet Sounds. I consider at least half of the record to be comprised of trivialities. But the album is a single unit and designed to be listened to the way it is presented. If it weren't part of Pet Sounds, "Sloop John B" need not exist.


Didn't "Sloop John B "exist for decades before it appeared on Pet Sounds?

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:59 am 
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Decades? Yeah, decades.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Poptimism stood in contrast to the line of thinking that if you didn't like Revolver and Pet Sounds you were a dilettante and a philistine, which was also bullshit.

Well, I don't know about that one. You can't be like "teehee I just like when popular songs are good" and not love "Wouldn't It Be Nice."


What exactly are you arguing here? Are you saying that anyone who is serious about music has to like Pet Sounds? That it's not negotiable?



I understand that current artists still release "albums" as in collections of songs, but I would argue that they aren't albums in the same way Pet Sounds or Let It Be are. Does anyone listen to an "album" from start to finish anymore? Does the sequencing even matter?


i hope you aren't serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:39 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Wellness check on Bagels

:lol:
Brooklyn Vegan is 100x better for actual news content

i do enjoy checking out the reviews at times.

i've always loved the fest but it's been going downhill lineup wise the last few years, so this probably the nail in the coffin for that too. It's hard to believe a band like Jesus Lizard once played; now it's basically 75% glitchy electro pop chicks like Caroline Polachek and Charli XCX, and 25% Big Thief


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:33 am 
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Bagels wrote:
Brooklyn Vegan is 100x better for actual news content


The Gathering of the Juggalos looks like 4th of July at Wal-Mart.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:01 am 
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The Quietus is quite good if you like not so normie music. Their album reviews don't give out number scores, which every other site can't get away from.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:13 am 
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I guess we can add Pitchfork to the list of bands I've never seen perform live.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:34 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:

Didn't "Sloop John B "exist for decades before it appeared on Pet Sounds?


I'm not sure, but it sucks. I think that there was an argument about whether it or "Good Vibrations" should appear on the album and someone made the wrong choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:36 am 
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Bagels wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Poptimism stood in contrast to the line of thinking that if you didn't like Revolver and Pet Sounds you were a dilettante and a philistine, which was also bullshit.

Well, I don't know about that one. You can't be like "teehee I just like when popular songs are good" and not love "Wouldn't It Be Nice."


What exactly are you arguing here? Are you saying that anyone who is serious about music has to like Pet Sounds? That it's not negotiable?



I understand that current artists still release "albums" as in collections of songs, but I would argue that they aren't albums in the same way Pet Sounds or Let It Be are. Does anyone listen to an "album" from start to finish anymore? Does the sequencing even matter?


i hope you aren't serious.



Of course I'm serious. Do you listen to albums start to finish? If you do, I would guess you're in a small minority in the era of personalized Spotify playlists.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:21 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Poptimism stood in contrast to the line of thinking that if you didn't like Revolver and Pet Sounds you were a dilettante and a philistine, which was also bullshit.

Well, I don't know about that one. You can't be like "teehee I just like when popular songs are good" and not love "Wouldn't It Be Nice."


What exactly are you arguing here? Are you saying that anyone who is serious about music has to like Pet Sounds? That it's not negotiable?



I understand that current artists still release "albums" as in collections of songs, but I would argue that they aren't albums in the same way Pet Sounds or Let It Be are. Does anyone listen to an "album" from start to finish anymore? Does the sequencing even matter?


i hope you aren't serious.



Of course I'm serious. Do you listen to albums start to finish? If you do, I would guess you're in a small minority in the era of personalized Spotify playlists.


yes i listen to records. So, start to finish. I don't normally listen to things any other way.

i mean of course i listen to digital things in my car/at work but again i generally listen to albums.
people still make them you know

if you're listening to Olivio Rodrigo i guess maybe you aren't


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:32 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
yes i listen to records. So, start to finish. I don't normally listen to things any other way.

i mean of course i listen to digital things in my car/at work but again i generally listen to albums.
people still make them you know

if you're listening to Olivio Rodrigo i guess maybe you aren't


Like I said, even many modern pop artists make what we might call "albums", but I'm not sure many of them see the collections of songs they release as an "album" as a comprehensive artistic project rather than just a manner of releasing the individual songs. (I'm sure I could articulate that better if I thought about it for a bit, but you understand what I mean.)

For example, I doubt there would ever be as much discussion about the track sequencing of a Taylor Swift record as there has been about "BIg Star's Third."

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Olivia Rodrigo's entire shtick being a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl whose target audience is horny old guys like us?

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:35 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
yes i listen to records. So, start to finish. I don't normally listen to things any other way.

i mean of course i listen to digital things in my car/at work but again i generally listen to albums.
people still make them you know

if you're listening to Olivio Rodrigo i guess maybe you aren't


Like I said, even many modern pop artists make what we might call "albums", but I'm not sure many of them see the collections of songs they release as an "album" as a comprehensive artistic project rather than just a manner of releasing the individual songs. (I'm sure I could articulate that better if I thought about it for a bit, but you understand what I mean.)

For example, I doubt there would ever be as much discussion about the track sequencing of a Taylor Swift record as there has been about "BIg Star's Third."

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Olivia Rodrigo's entire shtick being a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl whose target audience is horny old guys like us?

JORR / Rick Beato = MATCH !!!

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:44 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
yes i listen to records. So, start to finish. I don't normally listen to things any other way.

i mean of course i listen to digital things in my car/at work but again i generally listen to albums.
people still make them you know

if you're listening to Olivio Rodrigo i guess maybe you aren't


Like I said, even many modern pop artists make what we might call "albums", but I'm not sure many of them see the collections of songs they release as an "album" as a comprehensive artistic project rather than just a manner of releasing the individual songs. (I'm sure I could articulate that better if I thought about it for a bit, but you understand what I mean.)

For example, I doubt there would ever be as much discussion about the track sequencing of a Taylor Swift record as there has been about "BIg Star's Third."

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Olivia Rodrigo's entire shtick being a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl whose target audience is horny old guys like us?

JORR / Rick Beato = MATCH !!!


:lol: Did Beato weigh in on Olivia Rodrigo? He's horny too.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:46 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
yes i listen to records. So, start to finish. I don't normally listen to things any other way.

i mean of course i listen to digital things in my car/at work but again i generally listen to albums.
people still make them you know

if you're listening to Olivio Rodrigo i guess maybe you aren't


Like I said, even many modern pop artists make what we might call "albums", but I'm not sure many of them see the collections of songs they release as an "album" as a comprehensive artistic project rather than just a manner of releasing the individual songs. (I'm sure I could articulate that better if I thought about it for a bit, but you understand what I mean.)

For example, I doubt there would ever be as much discussion about the track sequencing of a Taylor Swift record as there has been about "BIg Star's Third."

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Olivia Rodrigo's entire shtick being a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl whose target audience is horny old guys like us?


Maybe i don't know what you're aruging.

Music is watered down/playlists/people listen to Taylor Swift. OK

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people making real music, that people are going to see. That make albums. That people listen to. What's at the Liars Club this weekend?


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Didn't "Sloop John B "exist for decades before it appeared on Pet Sounds?


I'm not sure, but it sucks. I think that there was an argument about whether it or "Good Vibrations" should appear on the album and someone made the wrong choice.


Hey, who ate up all of your corn?


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:53 pm 
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Bagels wrote:

Maybe i don't know what you're aruging.

Music is watered down/playlists/people listen to Taylor Swift. OK

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people making real music, that people are going to see. That make albums. That people listen to. What's at the Liars Club this weekend?


I guess we're getting back to what Curious and Warren were discussing. I'm not calling today's music "watered down" or suggesting that Taylor Swift is less of an artist than Van Morrison.

It's just different. Most of it may not be my thing. That's fine. I'm an old guy. Like Dylan said, "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

I'm sure I could find plenty of good young guitar bands that I like playing in basements or clubs. Occasionally I do. I happened upon a good live band called Silvertone last week. I looked them up on Spotify and I'm not a fan of their records. But they put on a good rock show. Their ridiculous rock star moves made me smile.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

Didn't "Sloop John B "exist for decades before it appeared on Pet Sounds?


I'm not sure, but it sucks. I think that there was an argument about whether it or "Good Vibrations" should appear on the album and someone made the wrong choice.


I'm pretty sure it's a folk song from the African diaspora. I don't care enough to look it up.

Also, "Sloop John B" is a pretty good tune, and without it we likely wouldn't have the stone cold masterpiece "John Allyn Smith Sails" by Okkervil River.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:18 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:

Maybe i don't know what you're aruging.

Music is watered down/playlists/people listen to Taylor Swift. OK

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people making real music, that people are going to see. That make albums. That people listen to. What's at the Liars Club this weekend?


I guess we're getting back to what Curious and Warren were discussing. I'm not calling today's music "watered down" or suggesting that Taylor Swift is less of an artist than Van Morrison.

It's just different. Most of it may not be my thing. That's fine. I'm an old guy. Like Dylan said, "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

I'm sure I could find plenty of good young guitar bands that I like playing in basements or clubs. Occasionally I do. I happened upon a good live band called Silvertone last week. I looked them up on Spotify and I'm not a fan of their records. But they put on a good rock show. Their ridiculous rock star moves made me smile.


I think there's a question of perceived authenticity at the heart of this debate. The emergence of cultural studies--and the treatment of pop cultural artifacts as legitimate forms of artistic expression--has provided the intellectual underpinnings for poptimists, who dispensed with the (19th century) Romantic conception of authorship, audience, and authenticity championed by rockists.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 2:16 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:

Maybe i don't know what you're aruging.

Music is watered down/playlists/people listen to Taylor Swift. OK

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people making real music, that people are going to see. That make albums. That people listen to. What's at the Liars Club this weekend?


I guess we're getting back to what Curious and Warren were discussing. I'm not calling today's music "watered down" or suggesting that Taylor Swift is less of an artist than Van Morrison.

It's just different. Most of it may not be my thing. That's fine. I'm an old guy. Like Dylan said, "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

I'm sure I could find plenty of good young guitar bands that I like playing in basements or clubs. Occasionally I do. I happened upon a good live band called Silvertone last week. I looked them up on Spotify and I'm not a fan of their records. But they put on a good rock show. Their ridiculous rock star moves made me smile.


I think there's a question of perceived authenticity at the heart of this debate. The emergence of cultural studies--and the treatment of pop cultural artifacts as legitimate forms of artistic expression--has provided the intellectual underpinnings for poptimists, who dispensed with the (19th century) Romantic conception of authorship, audience, and authenticity championed by rockists.


what?


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:47 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:

Maybe i don't know what you're aruging.

Music is watered down/playlists/people listen to Taylor Swift. OK

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people making real music, that people are going to see. That make albums. That people listen to. What's at the Liars Club this weekend?


I guess we're getting back to what Curious and Warren were discussing. I'm not calling today's music "watered down" or suggesting that Taylor Swift is less of an artist than Van Morrison.

It's just different. Most of it may not be my thing. That's fine. I'm an old guy. Like Dylan said, "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

I'm sure I could find plenty of good young guitar bands that I like playing in basements or clubs. Occasionally I do. I happened upon a good live band called Silvertone last week. I looked them up on Spotify and I'm not a fan of their records. But they put on a good rock show. Their ridiculous rock star moves made me smile.


I think there's a question of perceived authenticity at the heart of this debate. The emergence of cultural studies--and the treatment of pop cultural artifacts as legitimate forms of artistic expression--has provided the intellectual underpinnings for poptimists, who dispensed with the (19th century) Romantic conception of authorship, audience, and authenticity championed by rockists.


I think the heart of this debate is whether or not you think it's possible to listen to a whole bunch of music and then reason your way to a determination of the greatest music of all time. I think all of our musical preferences are happenstance. In other words, if you changed any one of your: age, race, gender, and friends, you would have different music tastes. Therefore, it's really difficult to say that someone has bad tastes in music, because everyone's taste is somewhat of an accident. So, while there are ridiculous extremes to some of their positions, I think the poptimists are ultimately in the right.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:59 pm 
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Why’s everyone slagging on my 10yo daughter’s favorite artist Olivia Rodrigo?!? For punishment someone needs to give me tickets to Rodrigo’s UC show on 3/19 or 3/20 so I don’t have to spend $300 a ticket to take her.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:20 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Why’s everyone slagging on my 10yo daughter’s favorite artist Olivia Rodrigo?!? For punishment someone needs to give me tickets to Rodrigo’s UC show on 3/19 or 3/20 so I don’t have to spend $300 a ticket to take her.



https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LtCFcY_7sfg

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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:56 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Decades? Yeah, decades.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Pitchfork
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:13 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Why’s everyone slagging on my 10yo daughter’s favorite artist Olivia Rodrigo?!? For punishment someone needs to give me tickets to Rodrigo’s UC show on 3/19 or 3/20 so I don’t have to spend $300 a ticket to take her.

i
want
to rip off beck

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