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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:36 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.

I’m gonna abuse this metaphor, but you can’t opt to fill the bases and then choose march up Konerko when that happens. He ain’t walking through that door.

Keeping Fields is like loading the bases for Leury.

Keep the bases loaded in 2025....and 2026. Besides, Caleb may be Moncada anyway. Stop being so fucking desperate. You're Urkel in a bar room full of models.

Two free #1s where *gasp* other models will be available is apparently, NOT post nut clarity. It's a pipe dream anyway and you fuckers can't even fathom it because you're so horny for Caleb.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:39 pm 
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I'm taking Purdy -7 tomorrow just to stick it up your asses.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:43 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.

I’m gonna abuse this metaphor, but you can’t opt to fill the bases and then choose march up Konerko when that happens. He ain’t walking through that door.

Keeping Fields is like loading the bases for Leury.

Keep the bases loaded in 2025....and 2026. Besides, Caleb may be Moncada anyway. Stop being so fucking desperate. You're Urkel in a bar room full of models.

Two free #1s where *gasp* other models will be available is apparently, NOT post nut clarity. It's a pipe dream anyway and you fuckers can't even fathom it because you're so horny for Caleb.

Football isn’t as inexact a science as baseball. You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football. He could flame out, sure, but it would be a massive, massive bust. Generational bust, s'il vous plaît.

Since we’re crossing sports, getting 1s is The Process. Sure, you may get an Embiid, but you may end up Fultzing yourself. An NFL GM can’t assume that he (or she!!) will be able to just pass on the most important position in sports and address it down the road.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:19 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.

I’m gonna abuse this metaphor, but you can’t opt to fill the bases and then choose march up Konerko when that happens. He ain’t walking through that door.

Keeping Fields is like loading the bases for Leury.

Keep the bases loaded in 2025....and 2026. Besides, Caleb may be Moncada anyway. Stop being so fucking desperate. You're Urkel in a bar room full of models.

Two free #1s where *gasp* other models will be available is apparently, NOT post nut clarity. It's a pipe dream anyway and you fuckers can't even fathom it because you're so horny for Caleb.

Football isn’t as inexact a science as baseball. You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football. He could flame out, sure, but it would be a massive, massive bust. Generational bust, s'il vous plaît.

Since we’re crossing sports, getting 1s is The Process. Sure, you may get an Embiid, but you may end up Fultzing yourself. An NFL GM can’t assume that he (or she!!) will be able to just pass on the most important position in sports and address it down the road.

Do people know a generation is 25 years?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:25 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.

I’m gonna abuse this metaphor, but you can’t opt to fill the bases and then choose march up Konerko when that happens. He ain’t walking through that door.

Keeping Fields is like loading the bases for Leury.

Keep the bases loaded in 2025....and 2026. Besides, Caleb may be Moncada anyway. Stop being so fucking desperate. You're Urkel in a bar room full of models.

Two free #1s where *gasp* other models will be available is apparently, NOT post nut clarity. It's a pipe dream anyway and you fuckers can't even fathom it because you're so horny for Caleb.

Football isn’t as inexact a science as baseball. You get moist for Caleb when you watch college football. He could flame out, sure, but it would be a massive, massive bust. Generational bust, s'il vous plaît.

Since we’re crossing sports, getting 1s is The Process. Sure, you may get an Embiid, but you may end up Fultzing yourself. An NFL GM can’t assume that he (or she!!) will be able to just pass on the most important position in sports and address it down the road.

Do people know a generation is 25 years?

I don’t recall the predraft buzz in ‘99, but he’d be the biggest 1/1 bust since Tim Couch.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:26 pm 
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Hall of famers not knowing their ass from their elbow…

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Last edited by This Ends in Antioch on Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:39 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
. And it's insane to think that he isn't more talented than at least Goff and Cousins.


So this is how we gonna do this. We're actually gonna provide evidence to back up our statements. We're not gonna assert random drunk shit and just leave it at that.

Here's the summary: Kirk Cousins laps the shit out of Justin fields when it comes to QB talent. It's not close.

https://stathead.com/football/versus-fi ... 2yrto=2023

I did you a favor, bro. I selected one of Cousins' worst years as QB, all the way back in 2017. Check the link out. Even when throwing to Jameson Crowder as his no 1 receiver ( :lol: ) and handing the ball off to something called Samaje Perine, cousins still outpaced fields on a per game basis by far. Like it's not even close. His QBR for that year (56) would rank 5-6 spots ahead of Fields' QBR for this year, and again this is a down year for Cousins. Come back and try again but generally speaking all you Fields people are gonna get your ass handed to you when you assume you can say bullshit like "Justin is more talented than X" and not bring anything to back that up. That dog won't hunt.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:44 pm 
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There is zero basis for saying Fields is a better QB than Cousins, and I’ve never liked Cousins.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:48 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
There is zero basis for saying Fields is a better QB than Cousins, and I’ve never liked Cousins.


There's also zero basis for saying that Caleb Williams is a better QB than Justin Fields too!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:17 am 
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Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.




You can draft Williams and still load the bases. I’m not sure what you’re missing here. The Bears have plenty of draft capital and money for free agency.. on top of the fact the team already has a top 10 defense, an improved O-line and a handful of playmakers at skill positions.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:26 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
There's low risk if you replace Fields with Williams and then Williams proceeds to suck. Again, we're talking about the 23rd rated passer in the league. Per ESPN, Fields is actually underperforming a replacement- level QB. To be fair to Fields, he's not massively underperforming relative to a replacement level QB, but he's either just as good as a replacement level QB or slightly worse. Either way you put it, the response if Fields were to go this off-season should be "eh", followed by a shrug. The production is replaceable.


It's actually a high risk if you factor in what they could get for the pick as well as what they are passing up in Harrison. If he is only slightly better than Fields (who you think happens to suck just ask you) then it's dumb to draft him. If he isn't a franchise guy, as Keyshawn Johnson implied, then it's dumb to draft him. He has to be a top 10 QB in order to justify drafting him.


I don't hate Fields, the Fields performance data hates Fields.

Like I said, it's a no-brainer to replace the 23rd-best passer in the league, whether via the draft or free agency. You're neglecting to establish a baseline for Fields even as you calculate the risk for getting rid of him. That kind of cost/benefit calculation can only be done when you have properly appraised where Fields falls in the QB landscape relative to the options you have for replacing him. Per actual data, this is about replacing the 23rd best passer in the league.


T
Like Brogue You're not making sense. The choice is between Williams and Fields as it stands now. And your flawed argument is that you need to replace Fields just for the sake of replacing Fields. Well it's that sort of think that got Tony LaRussa replaced with Grifiol. And you see where that got us. If the Bears pass on Harrison to draft a guy that might only be slightly better than Justin Fields than it's a huge mistake.





All of this is irrelevant if Williams hits. It makes less sense when you consider that there’s been 3 full seasons to evaluate Fields -including 1 season where he had an elite backfield, a #1 WR, and an improved O-line and all his deficiencies remained. Replacing him now makes the most sense because the Bears are in the best position to make that decision.


So, replacing Fields is not based simply on ‘replacing him just to replace him’.. it’s based on the fact that the evaluation process has played out and he has fatal flaws that have shown no improvement over the entire span of his tenure here. It’s also based on being in the best possible position to replace him with a player who has higher potential to be great.


Your mention of Harrison Jr disregards the fact that Poles may trade too far back to pick him to begin with.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:24 pm 
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NME wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
There's low risk if you replace Fields with Williams and then Williams proceeds to suck. Again, we're talking about the 23rd rated passer in the league. Per ESPN, Fields is actually underperforming a replacement- level QB. To be fair to Fields, he's not massively underperforming relative to a replacement level QB, but he's either just as good as a replacement level QB or slightly worse. Either way you put it, the response if Fields were to go this off-season should be "eh", followed by a shrug. The production is replaceable.


It's actually a high risk if you factor in what they could get for the pick as well as what they are passing up in Harrison. If he is only slightly better than Fields (who you think happens to suck just ask you) then it's dumb to draft him. If he isn't a franchise guy, as Keyshawn Johnson implied, then it's dumb to draft him. He has to be a top 10 QB in order to justify drafting him.


I don't hate Fields, the Fields performance data hates Fields.

Like I said, it's a no-brainer to replace the 23rd-best passer in the league, whether via the draft or free agency. You're neglecting to establish a baseline for Fields even as you calculate the risk for getting rid of him. That kind of cost/benefit calculation can only be done when you have properly appraised where Fields falls in the QB landscape relative to the options you have for replacing him. Per actual data, this is about replacing the 23rd best passer in the league.


T
Like Brogue You're not making sense. The choice is between Williams and Fields as it stands now. And your flawed argument is that you need to replace Fields just for the sake of replacing Fields. Well it's that sort of think that got Tony LaRussa replaced with Grifiol. And you see where that got us. If the Bears pass on Harrison to draft a guy that might only be slightly better than Justin Fields than it's a huge mistake.





All of this is irrelevant if Williams hits. It makes less sense when you consider that there’s been 3 full seasons to evaluate Fields -including 1 season where he had an elite backfield, a #1 WR, and an improved O-line and all his deficiencies remained. Replacing him now makes the most sense because the Bears are in the best position to make that decision.


So, replacing Fields is not based simply on ‘replacing him just to replace him’.. it’s based on the fact that the evaluation process has played out and he has fatal flaws that have shown no improvement over the entire span of his tenure here. It’s also based on being in the best possible position to replace him with a player who has higher potential to be great.


Your mention of Harrison Jr disregards the fact that Poles may trade too far back to pick him to begin with.

The relevance lies in the earlier comment regarding his having to be simply better than the "23rd rated passed" if he is only slightly better than the "23rd rated passer" then he is a bust.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:44 pm 
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NME wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.




You can draft Williams and still load the bases. I’m not sure what you’re missing here. The Bears have plenty of draft capital and money for free agency.. on top of the fact the team already has a top 10 defense, an improved O-line and a handful of playmakers at skill positions.

Top 10 defense against who? Garbage, that's who. We saw it the last week of the season in the bid to get a signature win

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:01 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
NME wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I give zero fucks about Fields. Obviously, if the no brainer scenario is a bust, you draft a QB. But I don't know how you would turn that down for a scratch off.

Fill the bases loaded rather than hope for a bases empty HR.




You can draft Williams and still load the bases. I’m not sure what you’re missing here. The Bears have plenty of draft capital and money for free agency.. on top of the fact the team already has a top 10 defense, an improved O-line and a handful of playmakers at skill positions.

Top 10 defense against who? Garbage, that's who. We saw it the last week of the season in the bid to get a signature win




They beat Detroit in the last few games, and gave up only 17 points to a QB who literally played a perfect game without their top-5 corner in the game. Think about that for a second, a team that went on to absolutely obliterate Dallas in the playoffs could only put up 17 on the Bears defense even with their QB playing lights out and then missing their best player in the secondary.


That game was 7-6 at halftime.


After acquiring Sweat this defense took off, and it was already trending up prior to that with Flus taking over play calling.


And again, the Bears are in great position to add more to both sides of the ball this upcoming year thru free agency and the draft -even while taking a QB with the 1st overall.


This team already has a decent amount of talent all across the board.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:19 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:

The relevance lies in the earlier comment regarding his having to be simply better than the "23rd rated passed" if he is only slightly better than the "23rd rated passer" then he is a bust.




Irregardless the fact remains that there’s been plenty of time to evaluate Fields and base the decision to move on from him on his inability to overcome his short comings as a passer that have been present throughout his stay.


He does not anticipate well, he does not see wide open players, he holds on to the ball far too long, he makes critical mistakes late in games, he is not consistently accurate and so on. This is his NFL evaluation, he’s far passed the ‘potential’ phase as a passer now.


Even if the Bears were to add a player like Harrison Jr, it’s likely that only Justin’s stats improve while he stays the same as a passer and exhibits all his shortcomings. I base this off the addition of Moore as a legit #1 who played well, but only saw a minimal uptick in Justin’s actual improvement as a passer (for example).


The Bears may never again be in this position to replace him (or anyone else) at QB with the best prospect coming out of the draft. And given the importance of the QB position the logical thing to do is to take advantage of the opportunity and move on now. The odds of Fields changing significantly as a passer at this point are minuscule based on the evidence gathered to this point.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:20 pm 
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I can't believe the most talented QB in the league - Fields - could only put up 9 points against GB's mediocre defense. Once we get a better backup long snapper then Fields will have what he needs to put up 2-4 more points.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:25 pm 
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NME wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:

The relevance lies in the earlier comment regarding his having to be simply better than the "23rd rated passed" if he is only slightly better than the "23rd rated passer" then he is a bust.




Irregardless the fact remains that there’s been plenty of time to evaluate Fields and base the decision to move on from him on his inability to overcome his short comings as a passer that have been present throughout his stay.


He does not anticipate well, he does not see wide open players, he holds on to the ball far too long, he makes critical mistakes late in games, he is not consistently accurate and so on. This is his NFL evaluation, he’s far passed the ‘potential’ phase as a passer now.


Even if the Bears were to add a player like Harrison Jr, it’s likely that only Justin’s stats improve while he stays the same as a passer and exhibits all his shortcomings. I base this off the addition of Moore as a legit #1 who played well, but only saw a minimal uptick in Justin’s actual improvement as a passer (for example).


The Bears may never again be in this position to replace him (or anyone else) at QB with the best prospect coming out of the draft. And given the importance of the QB position the logical thing to do is to take advantage of the opportunity and move on now. The odds of Fields changing significantly as a passer at this point are minuscule based on the evidence gathered to this point.


There are plenty of people who do not believe that Williams will be better than Fields. It's not a clear cut decision.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:44 pm 
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One of the 5, or even someone we don't even know, will surely be better than Fields. We, or anybody else, doesn't really know. That's why you explore all possibilities and not be so goddam horny for one fucking guy.

Whatever Poles does, I'm going to be alright with. I'm going to trust him to do his due diligence.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:33 pm 
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LTG talking NFL draft during the heart of the NBA season :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:45 pm 
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Yeah talking Bears during the "heart of the football season" is definitely akin to discussing ODell Beckham during the OFFSEASON. Why no one besides Frank was able to see the connection, one will never know.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:46 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
LTG talking NFL draft during the heart of the NBA season :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:43 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Caleb Williams can't be worse than Fields. And you reset the clock



Fields has a big advantage over Williams. He is bigger, faster, and has experience as an NFL player. Williams is none of the above.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:45 pm 
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I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.




I mean, it’s been in front of our faces this whole time. This is the real genius behind all the people that want to continually trade these picks.. it’s so the Bears don’t have to actually use them.


It’s brilliant

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Last edited by NME on Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:48 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Caleb Williams can't be worse than Fields. And you reset the clock



Fields has a big advantage over Williams. He is bigger, faster, and has experience as an NFL player. Williams is none of the above.

Fields is bigger & faster than almost every NFL QB.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:53 pm 
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NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.




I mean, it’s been in front of our faces this whole time. This is the real genius behind all the people that want to continually trade these picks.. it’s so the Bears don’t have to actually use them.

It’s brilliant


They'll be QBs in 2025, 2026, and at #9 and whatever other first round pick the Bears have this year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:55 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.




I mean, it’s been in front of our faces this whole time. This is the real genius behind all the people that want to continually trade these picks.. it’s so the Bears don’t have to actually use them.

It’s brilliant


They'll be QBs in 2025, 2026, and at #9 and whatever other first round pick the Bears have this year.

2025 looks to be an awful class. That could be a Kenny Pickett type class.

Who knows on 26? Prolly depends on development of this year’s class and whatever happens with Arch. The odds that the Bears find a partner who’ll be picking at the top of the draft in a couple years isn’t really a risk I’d want to take.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:56 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.




I mean, it’s been in front of our faces this whole time. This is the real genius behind all the people that want to continually trade these picks.. it’s so the Bears don’t have to actually use them.

It’s brilliant


They'll be QBs in 2025, 2026, and at #9 and whatever other first round pick the Bears have this year.





The difference is the Bears may not be in any position to select one in those future drafts.. and just because ‘the guy’ might be available at #1 doesn’t mean he’ll be there at #9.


I still can’t wrap my head around your irrational fear of drafting a QB at #1

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:58 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nardi wrote:
NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I never thought about the lack of NFL experience thing. Makes you question why any team cares so much about drafting unproven and inexperienced players. Teams should just stick to acquiring players with NFL experience and give away all their draft picks to charity.




I mean, it’s been in front of our faces this whole time. This is the real genius behind all the people that want to continually trade these picks.. it’s so the Bears don’t have to actually use them.

It’s brilliant


They'll be QBs in 2025, 2026, and at #9 and whatever other first round pick the Bears have this year.

2025 looks to be an awful class. That could be a Kenny Pickett type class.

Who knows on 26? Prolly depends on development of this year’s class and whatever happens with Arch. The odds that the Bears find a partner who’ll be picking at the top of the draft in a couple years isn’t really a risk I’d want to take.

They should DEFINITELY pick a QB this year. If that doesn't work out, do it next year and the year after that. That's the benefit of getting free picks.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:03 pm 
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You can’t reset at the QB position every year or two. It’s not left field. When you make the choice, you have to get it right or you’re unemployed.

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