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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:13 pm 
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Yes, they need a center, but Fields makes the line look worse than it actually is. Let's put this dumb narrative to rest and point fingers at the real problem.



[tweet]https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1724448190630416393?s=08[/tweet]

Link: https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/ ... 0630416393?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:16 am 
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I think MANY people recognized this. Eberflus even spoke about the need for Fields to release the ball. Bagent was sacked one or zero times in three out of four starts. That said, the Packers game wasn't on him. That was shit O-Line play.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:42 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Yes, they need a center, but Fields makes the line look worse than it actually is. Let's put this dumb narrative to rest and point fingers at the real problem.



[tweet]https://x.com/benbbaldwin/status/1724448190630416393?s=08[/tweet]

Link: https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/ ... 0630416393?


They had no depth and injuries happen. It didn't seem like it on paper with Whitehair, Borom, Feeney all being vets who have started.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:36 am 
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Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:51 am 
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Correction: Bears finished 5th overall in pass block win rate. Fields finished slowest overall in time to throw. Fields finished top 5 or top 3 in sacks per drop back. Bagent in his limited time had the completely opposite performance in terms of sacks per drop back. Something is going on here, and it's not the line.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:20 am 
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Have to avoid the in town stupid regency bias crud you get from the "Bears Experts" here locally, but an honest evaluation would go something like this, must include TE and QB as both are key in the scheme they run.

LT-Jones is average, struggles with power and inside moves, can move his feet, is solid in the outside zone run scheme.

LG-Jenkins, average NFL player, excels in the run game, often injured, inconsistent pass blocker.

C-terrible no matter who played, likely the worst group in the NFL, inside pressure kills timing and it is shocking that Poles trotted out the putrid group he did last year, must improve if this team has any plans of having offensive success.

RG-Davis, health always a question, good in outside zone, can see why Titans let him go.

RT-Wright, excellent in run game, poor technique and feet against speed rushers, has upside, solid building block

TE-must include them, Kmet is just OK as a blocker, tends to blow assignments often, Lewis is one on the best blocking TE's in the NFL.

QB-will be interesting to see how the offense looks with a different starting QB, a guy that can make quick reads and get the ball out quickly will make the O line look much better.

Depth-putrid, especially at tackle, your swing tackle is a marginal NFL guard at best, and you are so bad a G and C that you actually started Patick, Feeney, and Whitehair, all of whom are at best marginal roster players.

It would be charitable to say the group is average given the lack of talent and health on the inside and the lack of a stud at LT, Jenkins enters a prove it year and must stay healthy to get a second deal, Davis looks like bad paper, but a relatively short term deal, Wright is your only real long term building block, still a ton to be done here.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:34 am 
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The only thing you're missing is actual production and performance. Per the metrics cited above, despite the individual deficiencies, they are indeed giving the QB more than 2.5 secs to get rid of the ball. That's the minimum you can ask for pass blocking and the Bears did beyond that last year for Fields and Bagent. Again, Bagent hardly got sacked.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:38 am 
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I believe Braxton Jones gave up 1 sack all season and played injured most of the year.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:22 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:50 am 
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they were able to run decently with jag RBs. Fields unable to process and make decisions led to many incredible houdini plays running around but also a lot of sacks.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:52 am 
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billypootons wrote:
they were able to run decently with jag RBs. Fields unable to process and make decisions led to many incredible houdini plays running around but also a lot of sacks.


They've been a great running team for 2 years. They were a great running team before Fields was unleashed in 2022.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:57 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


https://fantasyindex.com/2023/03/30/factoid/cj-stroud

OSU sack rate

Fields, 2019, 8.1%

Fields, 2020, 8.5%

Stroud, 2021, 2.9%

Stroud, 2022, 3.0%


Fields sack percentage in the NFL has been higher than 10% for each season. Bagent - playing behind the same offensive line - got sacked on only 3.3% of his pass plays.

Why does Fields like to get sacked?

https://stathead.com/football/versus-fi ... 2yrto=2023

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:24 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


https://fantasyindex.com/2023/03/30/factoid/cj-stroud

OSU sack rate

Fields, 2019, 8.1%

Fields, 2020, 8.5%

Stroud, 2021, 2.9%

Stroud, 2022, 3.0%


Fields sack percentage in the NFL has been higher than 10% for each season. Bagent - playing behind the same offensive line - got sacked on only 3.3% of his pass plays.

Why does Fields like to get sacked?

https://stathead.com/football/versus-fi ... 2yrto=2023


throw out the S2 test. whoever gets sacked the least is best. (those stats are telling though given they continued in the NFL). now we just need to pull tape from "Draft Experts" where fields decision making was being lauded


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:44 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


Doubtful he would have hit RFK from that distance.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:39 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


https://fantasyindex.com/2023/03/30/factoid/cj-stroud

OSU sack rate

Fields, 2019, 8.1%

Fields, 2020, 8.5%

Stroud, 2021, 2.9%

Stroud, 2022, 3.0%


Fields sack percentage in the NFL has been higher than 10% for each season. Bagent - playing behind the same offensive line - got sacked on only 3.3% of his pass plays.

Why does Fields like to get sacked?

https://stathead.com/football/versus-fi ... 2yrto=2023



You running away from the data again, ltg? Answer the question - why does your guy love getting sacked.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 4:00 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


Doubtful he would have hit RFK from that distance.

:lol: That is hilarious. And probably true.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:08 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The only thing you're missing is actual production and performance. Per the metrics cited above, despite the individual deficiencies, they are indeed giving the QB more than 2.5 secs to get rid of the ball. That's the minimum you can ask for pass blocking and the Bears did beyond that last year for Fields and Bagent. Again, Bagent hardly got sacked.




I believe our O-line was in the top-5 in ‘time to throw’ too showing that the pass blocking isn’t as bad as it looks at times.


The line obviously needs improvement at Center and could use better depth but they performed decent last year overall. Even if you just go off of the ‘eye test’.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:09 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yep, they are not world beaters but also not as bad as Fields made them look. ESPN had them top 7 or better in pass block win rate. Other lines were worse but their offense was better because the QB actually got rid of the ball. Fields' propensity to take sacks unnecessarily sullied the reputation of both the line and Getsy.


By the time Justin Fields's career is over you will have found a way to make him responsible for RFK's assassination.


Doubtful he would have hit RFK from that distance.





He would have been arrested before taking the shot..

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:13 pm 
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NME wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
The only thing you're missing is actual production and performance. Per the metrics cited above, despite the individual deficiencies, they are indeed giving the QB more than 2.5 secs to get rid of the ball. That's the minimum you can ask for pass blocking and the Bears did beyond that last year for Fields and Bagent. Again, Bagent hardly got sacked.




I believe our O-line was in the top-5 in ‘time to throw’ too showing that the pass blocking isn’t as bad as it looks at times.


The line obviously needs improvement at Center and could use better depth but they performed decent last year overall. Even if you just go off of the ‘eye test’.


Exactly. As a unit they performed adequately enough for any competent QB to advance the ball through the air, that's what the metrics are saying. All this stuff in 2023 and even 2022 about Fields being unable to perform because of bad protection is totally false. You drop Prescott or Cousins behind this line for the 2023 season and they win 11 games at minimum.

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