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man of few opinions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:36 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
You've got to cut your losses on this one, MOFO. Three different posters in succession (me, nas, Rick) pointed out the same flaw in your proposal. Doubling down isn't a good look.

:lol: ok
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:47 am 
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man of few opinions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:48 am 
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Its hardly an outrageous notion to suggest they look into trading back if they aren't sold on Williams and there is another guy they like and maximize the pick for a second straight year, but you guys are taking it pretty hard. I just hope my team isn't the one that trades up.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:50 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Nas wrote:
It sounds like you haven't given this much thought beyond the hypotheticals.

#2- The Redskins don't have to give the Bears a haul to move up one spot. They can draft Maye or Daniels or shop in free agency without taking a significant risk. They have a ton of cap space and could easily be a playoff team next year.

#3- The Patriots have $100M in cap space and a really good defense. They could turn their offense around in free agency and possibly take MHJ instead of a QB.

#4- The Cardinals don't need a QB.

#5- The Chargers don't need a QB.

#6- I suspect the Giants want a receiver or o-line help because jobs could be on the line if they stink this year.

#7. Tennessee doesn't need a QB.

#8- The Falcons are a playoff team if they find the right quarterback. They're reportedly focused on Cousins.

#9- Back to the Bears


It's unlikely the Bears would get anything significant trading with the other teams picking in the top 3. Moving down further than that would eliminate MHJ as an option and put the Bears at the mercy of teams like the Cardinals, Chargers, and Titans, who could trade down to allow another team to jump ahead of the Bears.

In your hypothetical scenario, the Bears could possibly trade Fields and the #1 pick and end up with Bo Nix as the best QB option and some future first round picks in the 20s. No thanks!


You just improved my hypothetical. In your world they could draft down into the teens and still get a good QB prospect and get even more draft return.

"I know you have a chance at the top QB prospect in the draft but why not consider just getting a good QB prospect instead?".

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:52 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Its hardly an outrageous notion to suggest they look into trading back if they aren't sold on Williams and there is another guy they like and maximize the pick for a second straight year, but you guys are taking it pretty hard. I just hope my team isn't the one that trades up.


Don't be dishonest now. That's not the source of the pushback. You've limited the # of QBs you'd be willing to draft outside of Wiiliams for the trade to still be worth doing, according to your own logic. But you refuse to acknowledge that the "haul" you'd get from the #10 team is totally different than the "haul" you'd get from #3. And since all the QBs you'd take if you were Poles will be gone by #8 at the least, there's no scenario where the Bears get an undeniable massive haul AND get to draft a top QB. So you've checkmated yourself.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:55 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Its hardly an outrageous notion to suggest they look into trading back if they aren't sold on Williams and there is another guy they like and maximize the pick for a second straight year, but you guys are taking it pretty hard. I just hope my team isn't the one that trades up.


I'm somewhat confident they're sold on Williams. You aren't hearing noise about anyone trying to jump in front of them. There was a report that the Bears tried to get him in for a visit today. That came from Kap though.

If the Bears weren't sold on Williams, it would make more sense to still select MHJ, keep Fields until the draft, and then gamble that your QB consolation prize will be on the board at #9.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:00 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
Nas wrote:
It sounds like you haven't given this much thought beyond the hypotheticals.

#2- The Redskins don't have to give the Bears a haul to move up one spot. They can draft Maye or Daniels or shop in free agency without taking a significant risk. They have a ton of cap space and could easily be a playoff team next year.

#3- The Patriots have $100M in cap space and a really good defense. They could turn their offense around in free agency and possibly take MHJ instead of a QB.

#4- The Cardinals don't need a QB.

#5- The Chargers don't need a QB.

#6- I suspect the Giants want a receiver or o-line help because jobs could be on the line if they stink this year.

#7. Tennessee doesn't need a QB.

#8- The Falcons are a playoff team if they find the right quarterback. They're reportedly focused on Cousins.

#9- Back to the Bears


It's unlikely the Bears would get anything significant trading with the other teams picking in the top 3. Moving down further than that would eliminate MHJ as an option and put the Bears at the mercy of teams like the Cardinals, Chargers, and Titans, who could trade down to allow another team to jump ahead of the Bears.

In your hypothetical scenario, the Bears could possibly trade Fields and the #1 pick and end up with Bo Nix as the best QB option and some future first round picks in the 20s. No thanks!


we dont know if the other teams view williams in a tier of his own. the last week or two all signs point to the bears taking williams so i'm not even worried anymore about what compensation the bears could get

Correct. A Fuckin' Haul can be put to bed. Nas laid it out pretty well.

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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:11 pm 
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Last week, Rich Eisen was interviewing Daniel Jeremiah and asked what it would take for the Giants to go from 6 to 3 to draft Jaden Daniels or MHJ. The answer was both of NY's 2nds, their 3rd, and a 2025 and 2026 2nd.

Rich then asked about the Giants trading up to 1, and Jeremiah laughed and said "the Giants wouldn't be drafting for several years after that..."

So probably 3 1sts and 4 2nds. But you are then at 6 and 9, and you aren't getting either Jaden Daniels or MHJ.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:16 pm 
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Don't be surprised if Jerry Rice's side baby ends up being a Bear. He and C-Will appear to be great friends and there is some talent there to develop. Maybe a 4th round pick.

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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:26 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I think they are in a great spot at 9 to consider a trade down unless there is just an absolute no brainer there they really want. It seems the talent from 9-20 is about equal. So trade down and get hopefully a 2nd and then get someone at a lower spot


There seems to be growing momentum that all 3 WR's will be off the board by 9. If that's the case, it's possible they go for a TE/OL, top defensive player on their board, but they probably will want more picks overall in the draft. Adding a 2nd for moving down also makes a lot of sense depending on what they value.
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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:30 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I think they are in a great spot at 9 to consider a trade down unless there is just an absolute no brainer there they really want. It seems the talent from 9-20 is about equal. So trade down and get hopefully a 2nd and then get someone at a lower spot


Depending on the QB's in Round 1, at least 3 will be off the board and probably at least 4. Is #9 a spot for a team that is QB hungry to move into depending on how the board falls?

This could be their last year drafting in the top 10 for a while if things work out the way they are hoping. This could be their last chance to add premium talent at the top of the draft.
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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:32 pm 
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BD wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I think they are in a great spot at 9 to consider a trade down unless there is just an absolute no brainer there they really want. It seems the talent from 9-20 is about equal. So trade down and get hopefully a 2nd and then get someone at a lower spot


There seems to be growing momentum that all 3 WR's will be off the board by 9. If that's the case, it's possible they go for a TE/OL, top defensive player on their board, but they probably will want more picks overall in the draft. Adding a 2nd for moving down also makes a lot of sense depending on what they value.


from what I've seen, momentum is in the opposite direction with the way the DE looked at the combine and the possibility 4 qb go early

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man of few opinions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:32 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Its hardly an outrageous notion to suggest they look into trading back if they aren't sold on Williams and there is another guy they like and maximize the pick for a second straight year, but you guys are taking it pretty hard. I just hope my team isn't the one that trades up.


Don't be dishonest now. That's not the source of the pushback. You've limited the # of QBs you'd be willing to draft outside of Wiiliams for the trade to still be worth doing, according to your own logic. But you refuse to acknowledge that the "haul" you'd get from the #10 team is totally different than the "haul" you'd get from #3. And since all the QBs you'd take if you were Poles will be gone by #8 at the least, there's no scenario where the Bears get an undeniable massive haul AND get to draft a top QB. So you've checkmated yourself.

You are right, I would limit my desire to trade down based on which QB I want and his likelihood to be there. I totally understand the difference in return based on how far back, and the potential for a massive "haul" is limited by the desperation of another GM. I am not sure what you are arguing with me about.
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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:33 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Doesn’t having Sweat locked up make you think no need for edge at 9?


Sweat isn't elite and he still needs help on the opposite side.


Yep. He can just be double teamed if there's no one else on the other side to account for.


I like the FA options at DE


From an impact/$$$ moves, I think they will go after another edge / center in free agency. Depth/value moves from there - adding a dependable veteran S is important and more weapons on offense, but I think some of that is also going to be a draft focus.
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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:34 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Assuming the Bears take Williams, would the #9 pick plus Justin Fields be enough to get Marvin Harrison?


I imagine you would have to include the Panthers' pick from next year in the deal. Maybe more.


Yeah, there's no way that this would be enough. At least 1 2nd rounder, maybe something more, would have to be included to move that high.
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BD
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NME wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Assuming the Bears take Williams, would the #9 pick plus Justin Fields be enough to get Marvin Harrison?




They need a Center in this years draft so I’d be looking to gather more assets thru trades rather than deplete them with trades like this. Keep in mind, there’s some really good WR prospects in this draft too so moving back with that #9 isn’t a terrible idea. I’d almost be tempted to move back with 9.. grab the Center with that pick then grab a WR in the 2nd if they can recoup a 2nd in a trade back.


Seriously, this WR class is pretty insane. Franklin, Thomas Jr, McConkey, Legette, Mitchell and so on are all way up there talent wise. This is probably the deepest class at this position I’ve ever seen.


Yep, very deep position. They need to acquire a 2nd though from either a Fields trade of the #9 trade-down. I suspect they will add picks from where they are.
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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Now the athletic says the Steelers are definitively out of the Bustin Fields "sweepstakes".

https://theathletic.com/5311894/2024/03 ... n-pickett/


Seems hard to believe they would be satisfied with Pickett/Rudolph.
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man of few opinions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:37 pm 
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Nas wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Its hardly an outrageous notion to suggest they look into trading back if they aren't sold on Williams and there is another guy they like and maximize the pick for a second straight year, but you guys are taking it pretty hard. I just hope my team isn't the one that trades up.


I'm somewhat confident they're sold on Williams. You aren't hearing noise about anyone trying to jump in front of them. There was a report that the Bears tried to get him in for a visit today. That came from Kap though.

If the Bears weren't sold on Williams, it would make more sense to still select MHJ, keep Fields until the draft, and then gamble that your QB consolation prize will be on the board at #9.

That's not crazy, but unless you like Bo NIx you will likely be forced to then trade up from 9 to get Daniels or Penix. Waiting until 9 could be dangerous. And you run the risk of other QB-hungry teams further down trading up into the top 10 if those guys somehow slip into that range.
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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
BD wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I think they are in a great spot at 9 to consider a trade down unless there is just an absolute no brainer there they really want. It seems the talent from 9-20 is about equal. So trade down and get hopefully a 2nd and then get someone at a lower spot


There seems to be growing momentum that all 3 WR's will be off the board by 9. If that's the case, it's possible they go for a TE/OL, top defensive player on their board, but they probably will want more picks overall in the draft. Adding a 2nd for moving down also makes a lot of sense depending on what they value.


from what I've seen, momentum is in the opposite direction with the way the DE looked at the combine and the possibility 4 qb go early


Yeah, I think one of those guys may be there.

1. C-Will
2. Maye
3. Daniels
4. MHJ
5. Bowers
6. Nabers
7. Alt
8. McCarthy/Turner
9. Odunze

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IkeSouth
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:40 pm 
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I will bet $1k to anyone that says the bears will not aquire Caleb Williams this year.

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Tall Midget
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:51 pm 
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Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.

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BD
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:58 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.


I've heard Nix and McCarthy also moved up the boards. So, probably not all of what we're hearing is going to turn out and at least one, if not two, may slide more than the initial takes.

Good chance though that 4 are gone in the top 6-8 picks.
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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:00 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.


I heard Nix did well in the meetings too. I missed Penix throwing. I'll have to check that out.

I struggle with him and Daniels because the talent around them was so great.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:02 pm 
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BD wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.


I've heard Nix and McCarthy also moved up the boards. So, probably not all of what we're hearing is going to turn out and at least one, if not two, may slide more than the initial takes.

Good chance though that 4 are gone in the top 6-8 picks.


I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if all 5 were gone by pick 16.

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Tall Midget
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.


I heard Nix did well in the meetings too. I missed Penix throwing. I'll have to check that out.

I struggle with him and Daniels because the talent around them was so great.


Penix played very well at Indiana--when he wasn't hurt.

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Hawg Ass
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:05 pm 
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Penix and McCarthy wowed them at the combine according to the consensus I have read.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:12 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Isn't Penix shooting up draft boards? He threw great at the Combine and apparently killed it in meetings with a bunch of teams.


I heard Nix did well in the meetings too. I missed Penix throwing. I'll have to check that out.

I struggle with him and Daniels because the talent around them was so great.


Penix played very well at Indiana--when he wasn't hurt.


I'll check out his Indiana highlights.

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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:14 pm 
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It sounds like the Steelers are dangling Dionte Johnson, and the Bengals may be willing to trade Higgins. I would have no use for Johnson. I would be interested in Higgins for a Davante Adams or Tyreek Hill type of trade. Would you be willing to give up a 2025 first round pick for Higgins?

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