single dads.

Cops, firefighters, city workers of all stripes really. Odd hours doesn’t always line up with public transportation even in NYC.

My knowledge of Manhattan is about 20 years old, but one of the biggest differences I observed between Manhattan and Chicago is Manhattan's dearth of parking garages. That whole area was set up to make public transportation be the most efficient option.

downtown isn't really congested. I frequently drive from south to north in the loop at rush hour and I think it moves well for a big city

but, they have to call it something other than "another tax"

remember, the tollways were supposed to have reverted to free ways after something like 20 years. that was 52 years ago

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I gotta believe this is somehow tied to that obsession people have with making every American metropolis resemble "walkable" European shitholes. They've gotten the immigrants committing rampant crime down, now they just need to come and take your ca—oops, I mean make it prohibitively expensive to drive your car on public roads.

A lot of them were also more well hidden because they used car elevators and you hoped it came back with minimal damage. It was still cheaper to park there than take the train in from where we lived though especially since we were doing it during non-business hours. Most of the money in transportation in New York came from encouraging and price gouging people taking the bridges.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Once upon a time, these types of things were well understood as incredibly regressive money grabs by governments that can’t manage budgets.

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It's kind of a unique situation, but basically these types of fares/tolls that are mostly profit subsidize the rest of the system and gives NYC by far the best public transportation system in the country.

https://www.columbia.edu/~kyl2120/mtaproject/

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don’t think this qualifies as either a fare or a toll.

Both of those are intended to maintain & improve the thing you’re paying for. This explicitly has nothing to do with maintaining roads south of 60th.

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Americans are so stupid they will literally give you money just to soothe their own egos and prove that they can. “it’s like a fast pass” OK Mr. Moneybags, why aren’t you just flying around in a helicopter then?

This mentality is unique to our country.

It is literally just so they can borrow billions of dollars and not make cuts to their obscenely bloated and wasteful municipal bureaucracy.

How is it not a fare or a toll?

The bridge fares in NYC are used to subsidize all the other things they do and lose money on. They are under no obligation to only spend the money on fares on the direct infrastructure of the place they collect the fare for.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

sounds like good accountability

I’ll say this for Chicago…when it comes time to find creative ways to confiscate people’s money, they do their best to look at activities over represented by tourists. That’s more a matter of political expediency than decency but it’s a more considerate approach no matter the motive.

This is just…I mean - who pays this?

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It's a double edged sword. On one hand, it's the only good public transportation in the whole country. On the other hand, they are billions in debt, managed incredibly poorly outside of the actual "get you where you want to go on time" part, and it probably eventually has to go bankrupt completely.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The bridge fares don’t contribute to maintenance of the bridges? That seems like an oversight.

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Congestion pricing is not uncommon in Europe

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They fully cover the maintenance to the bridges and the massive surplus from tolls is redirected to other non-car related parts that don't make money or lose money.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This behavior where people who are not rich try to act rich by literally giving money away for nothing is an American trait.

Can you send me $100?

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A bunch of public municipal employees who will soon either work some sort of refund into their compensation package. So it’ll just be money cycling with a bunch of useless programs in between.

Add a couple zeroes and maybe.

Ok, so they do cover upkeep. Seems like we’ve differentiated why those are fares and this is not.

These are just straight up fees that explicitly have nothing to do with road maintenance. You’re not being charged for “use” - as is typical in transportation world - you’re being charged because fuck you, that’s why.

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It seems like you are using an incorrect definition of fare/toll and it isn't worth arguing further.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So you’re saying that you don’t understand why fares & tolls are charged and want to just accept any and all government fees as inherently good?

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A fare or toll is under no obligation to be used to fund the specific thing that is subject to the fare.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I’m sure there are exceptions somewhere in the world but I don’t think you’re even directionally correct in practice.

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That and the lack of alleys. Only in the last two or three years did they figure out how to put garbage in a bin instead of just throwing it on the sidewalk. But yeah, most of Manhattan just isn't meant for heavy car traffic. Doesn't work!


I think Loop traffic is worse than it was pre-pandemic but the Kennedy has always been the real problem.

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I'll grant you that NYC probably has the best public transportation system in the country, but I think D.C.'s subway system is better.

You've made this statement twice about Loop traffic being worse now than before the pandemic and I completely disagree with you. As someone who has worked in the Loop for 17 years, I am still amazed at the lack of traffic you'll see at midday during the week.