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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:35 am 
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Bears should stay away from erratic Cutler

April 2, 2009
BY DAN MCNEIL

Might Orton be more mature?

Coveted quarterback's positives far outweigh possible negatives

Jay Cutler is this decade's Ryan Leaf. Big body. Big arm. Big dope.

Put me down for a big ''no.''

Cutler's erratic play is reason enough for Bears general manager Jerry Angelo to pass on cutting a deal for the disgruntled Denver Broncos quarterback. If you need more, Cutler's immature attitude, coupled with the Bears' inability to reach players with those issues, are reasons to steer clear.

And why Cutler advocates are tacking ''franchise quarterback'' and ''star'' to his business card is a mystery. Cutler has been in the league three years, and his next playoff appearance will be his first.

Blame fantasy football. Big numbers have distorted reality so much, we can't decipher what's good anymore. Cutler threw for more than 4,500 yards last season and made the Pro Bowl, but when the Broncos needed him to be ''the man'' and take them to the playoffs, he spit the bit.

Denver lost to Carolina, Buffalo and San Diego in its final three games. Cutler, who earlier in the year said he had a stronger arm than Hall of Famer John Elway, threw two touchdown passes and was intercepted four times in that stretch. His passer rating was lower than 50 in two of the losses.

Sounds more like Rex Grossman than Elway.

Too much inconsistency
Cutler threw 25 touchdown passes with 18 interceptions and posted an above-average 86 rating in 2008. He also contributed largely to bad losses to Kansas City -- after a 3-0 start -- and to Oakland in Week 12 at home.

You want to endure another few seasons of ''Good Rex, Bad Rex''?

With Cutler, the roller-coaster ride would be much more disruptive. At least we didn't have to suffer Grossman comparing himself to Sid Luckman or Jim McMahon.

Maybe Cutler's cockiness can be passed off on youthful exuberance. In fairness, he didn't say he was better than Elway. He suggested he has a stronger arm than Elway did.

And he could be right, but there's more to winning a Super Bowl -- and Elway won two of them -- than a rifle arm. A quarterback also needs a strong will and brains. I've not seen enough of that from Cutler.

Minnesota also is interested, but several members of the coaching staff have seen enough red flags from Cutler that they reportedly are attempting to dissuade coach Brad Childress from pressing the issue. And the Vikings have Tarvaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels scheduled to duel for the No. 1 job in training camp.

The New York Jets also are in the Cutler sweepstakes as they seek Brett Favre's successor. Veteran safety Kerry Rhodes has stated publicly he won't welcome the self-assured Cutler on board.

Cutler's latest transgression is his worst. The unkempt quarterback refused to reply to messages left by new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. It seems Cutler's feelings were hurt when word spilled of the Broncos' interest in New England's Matt Cassel.

Perhaps Cutler would feel secure only if Denver invited Uncle Rico to camp to compete with him.

If the Bears had a track record of making good soldiers out of questionable characters, it would be easier to have an open mind. I struggle, however, to imagine coach Lovie Smith and his wingmen helping Cutler see the light.

They didn't do it with Tank Johnson. Or Cedric Benson. Last year, Tommie Harris became a sideshow.

The more I've thought about it, the more I'm willing to bet against Smith and his staff in an endeavor like this.

Even if the Bears were able to tame Cutler, there is no evidence they're able to unlock his potential. The Bears never have developed quarterbacks.

Quarterbacks coach Pep Hamilton hasn't made me think, ''Oh, yeah! A young Mike Holmgren.'' Offensive coordinator Ron Turner had one great season with the Bears. In 1995.

It's true the Bears have more questions than answers about Kyle Orton, but Orton shares more with Cutler than people know. With their teams fighting for a wild-card berth, both posted sub-50 ratings in two of their final three games last season.

Both will be 26 when the season begins. Both have shown flashes, then performed like clueless rookies, long after their first seasons. Both have a fondness for scruffy facial hair.

I don't see Orton petulantly not replying to a text from his head coach, however, when Smith praises the play of Brett Basanez in a preseason game this August. Orton likely won't be baited into a war of words with another quarterback in his division, the way Cutler was last year with San Diego's Philip Rivers.

Dare I suggest that Orton -- the kid made infamous for an Internet photo of him slurping sour mash in an Iowa bar during his first season -- has a leg up on Cutler when it comes to maturity and leadership?

A good leader must be willing to be unpopular. So far, that's the only part of the job Cutler has down.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:42 am 
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I doubt Salisbury could be talked out of retirement.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:52 am 
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I doubt Salisbury could be talked out of retirement.


No, but his cell phone could be . :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:27 am 
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Another masterpiece. Just like the deuce I dropped in the toilet bowl this morning.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 am 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Another masterpiece. Just like the deuce I dropped in the toilet bowl this morning.


I'm sure after you wiped you're ass and looked into the toliet you saw a reflection as well . :P


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:54 am 
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Meh, the article was okay. I think Mac stated his position clearly and I buy the argument that a quarterback has to have something between the ears, but I gotta tell ya, he also has to have a better supporting cast than Eddie friggin Royal and whatever the other no-names were that they trotted out there in Denver last year. I know that Cutler instigated the comparative talk, but Elway had a great offensive line and a great running game - I think it's a comparison of apples to oranges in this case. I understand the limitations of the Bears coaching staff in developing young talent, but that's an indictment of them and I'm not completely concerned because Cutler already has NFL experience and he's been through the wringer a bit already. I think that Cutler wants to play this game for a while and I think that wherever he ends up, he'll relish the new start and he'll drop his little bitch act. I still want the beloved to do EVERYTHING in their power to get Cutler.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:59 am 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
Meh, the article was okay. I think Mac stated his position clearly and I buy the argument that a quarterback has to have something between the ears, but I gotta tell ya, he also has to have a better supporting cast than Eddie friggin Royal and whatever the other no-names were that they trotted out there in Denver last year. I know that Cutler instigated the comparative talk, but Elway had a great offensive line and a great running game - I think it's a comparison of apples to oranges in this case. I understand the limitations of the Bears coaching staff in developing young talent, but that's an indictment of them and I'm not completely concerned because Cutler already has NFL experience and he's been through the wringer a bit already. I think that Cutler wants to play this game for a while and I think that wherever he ends up, he'll relish the new start and he'll drop his little bitch act. I still want the beloved to do EVERYTHING in their power to get Cutler.



No names, Hack? Never heard of Brandon Marshall? The guy is a beast....when he's not beating up the ladies.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 am 
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Mac wrote:
Perhaps Cutler would feel secure only if Denver invited Uncle Rico to camp to compete with him.


:lol: :thumright:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:19 am 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
Meh, the article was okay. I think Mac stated his position clearly and I buy the argument that a quarterback has to have something between the ears, but I gotta tell ya, he also has to have a better supporting cast than Eddie friggin Royal and whatever the other no-names were that they trotted out there in Denver last year. I know that Cutler instigated the comparative talk, but Elway had a great offensive line and a great running game - I think it's a comparison of apples to oranges in this case. I understand the limitations of the Bears coaching staff in developing young talent, but that's an indictment of them and I'm not completely concerned because Cutler already has NFL experience and he's been through the wringer a bit already. I think that Cutler wants to play this game for a while and I think that wherever he ends up, he'll relish the new start and he'll drop his little bitch act. I still want the beloved to do EVERYTHING in their power to get Cutler.



No names, Hack? Never heard of Brandon Marshall? The guy is a beast....when he's not beating up the ladies.


Sorry, Ivan - He's put up a couple of decent years in a row (I must concede that 'cuz I think he's in the top 10), but I really want to see him and Royal perform the same with Brady Quinn or Kyle Orton throwin' him the ball..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:21 am 
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Who was the last big time player traded for valuable draft picks or one really valuable pick that met or exceeded expectations?

I'll start a list of players who did not.
Ricky Williams
Herschel Walker
Brett Favre(questionable whether it was a good or bad trade since it ended up being a fourth rounder I believe)

Culter would be a clear upgrade over Orton but you can't give up a ton to get a guy with question marks now around him. The Broncos have watched him for years and don't really seem to care about keeping him. Any other organization would simply restructure his deal and give him more money if he was truly a "franchise QB".

My guess is that some team is going to give 2 first rounders for him and regret it later on when he doesn't deliver. When you give up 2 first rounders, you better expect him to be a pro bowler many times over.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:22 am 
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Sawbucks!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:27 am 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
Sorry, Ivan - He's put up a couple of decent years in a row (I must concede that 'cuz I think he's in the top 10), but I really want to see him and Royal perform the same with Brady Quinn or Kyle Orton throwin' him the ball..

If Cutler is the world beater that can turn these players into superstars why are the Broncos so eager to get rid of him and why were they so eager to bring in a player who had Randy Moss and Wes Welker to throw to who clearly are quality receivers on their own?

Jay Cutler is a very good QB but he's not the savior.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:27 am 
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Sawbucks!!!!!!!!!



I agree. Good point...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:29 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Who was the last big time player traded for valuable draft picks or one really valuable pick that met or exceeded expectations?

I'll start a list of players who did not.
Ricky Williams
Herschel Walker
Brett Favre(questionable whether it was a good or bad trade since it ended up being a fourth rounder I believe)

Culter would be a clear upgrade over Orton but you can't give up a ton to get a guy with question marks now around him. The Broncos have watched him for years and don't really seem to care about keeping him. Any other organization would simply restructure his deal and give him more money if he was truly a "franchise QB".

My guess is that some team is going to give 2 first rounders for him and regret it later on when he doesn't deliver. When you give up 2 first rounders, you better expect him to be a pro bowler many times over.


I have no problem giving Denver Orton and our first-round pick. As I have previously stated, I really think J.A. is likely to make a bad decision for our first pick. Wait, you're still here, Rick? :eye:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:31 am 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
I have no problem giving Denver Orton and our first-round pick. As I have previously stated, I really think J.A. is likely to make a bad decision for our first pick. Wait, you're still here, Rick? :eye:

I wouldn't either. That would be a good trade for the Bears.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Looks like I'll have to wait another year to retire.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:34 am 
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T-Bone wrote:
April 2, 2009
BY DAN MCNEIL
Denver lost to Carolina, Buffalo and San Diego in its final three games. Cutler, who earlier in the year said he had a stronger arm than Hall of Famer John Elway, threw two touchdown passes and was intercepted four times in that stretch. His passer rating was lower than 50 in two of the losses.

Sounds more like Rex Grossman than Elway.



Um....no.
First of all, the Bronco D gave up 30, 30, and 52 points in the final 3 games you're referring to Mac. Second, Cutler had ratings of 74.3, 72.4, 74.9 in the final three games...none below 50 as you stated. Cutler had only 1 game all year with a QB rating under 50 and only 3 total games with a rating below 70. He completed 62% of his passes in the final three games and averaged 282 passing yards per game in those games...which happens to be exactly what he averaged (both completion % and yards/game) for the other 13 games. He threw a TD in all but 2 games and threw more than 1 INT in only 4 games. That doesn't sound like inconsistent to me. The fact is...the Bronco defense sucks AND their running game sucks. Jay Cutler, however, does not suck; he's the biggest reason the won the games that they did (and Ed Hoculi too). The final 3 games were against solid defenses that simply decided Jay Cutler wasn't going to beat them...it's SOP for good defenses against one-dimensional teams.
Comparisons to any Bear quarterbacks is just embarassing so let's not even go there.
Cutler's acting like a little baby and deserves all the bashing you can give him for that. But keep it off the field; on the field, Jay Cutler would be the best quarterback we've seen in the this town in most of our lifetimes.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:36 am 
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Let's end the fantasy right here, right now. The Bears aren't getting Jay Cutler, in part because I think he's very erratic and I think he's kinda smug. I also don't think the Bears have nearly enough to give the Broncos in return. Besides, "The SCORE's" Hub Arkush believes he's a prima donna. Your starting quarterback in Green Bay is already on this team, Kyle Orton. Deal with it!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:55 am 
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SHARK wrote:
Let's end the fantasy right here, right now. The Bears aren't getting Jay Cutler, in part because I think he's very erratic and I think he's kinda smug. I also don't think the Bears have nearly enough to give the Broncos in return. Besides, "The SCORE's" Hub Arkush believes he's a prima donna. Your starting quarterback in Green Bay is already on this team, Kyle Orton. Deal with it!


Don't be brainwashed by the Bear-friendly media members. The Bears want Cutler, period. They won't get him because they don't have the ammunition or balls to pull off this type of trade.
erratic, smug, prima donna.... sounds like Philip Rivers before last year. Leave off erratic and it still sounds like Philip Rivers. And btw, I wouldn't call Cutler erratic either.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:07 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
SHARK wrote:
Let's end the fantasy right here, right now. The Bears aren't getting Jay Cutler, in part because I think he's very erratic and I think he's kinda smug. I also don't think the Bears have nearly enough to give the Broncos in return. Besides, "The SCORE's" Hub Arkush believes he's a prima donna. Your starting quarterback in Green Bay is already on this team, Kyle Orton. Deal with it!


Don't be brainwashed by the Bear-friendly media members. The Bears want Cutler, period. They won't get him because they don't have the ammunition or balls to pull off this type of trade.
erratic, smug, prima donna.... sounds like Philip Rivers before last year. Leave off erratic and it still sounds like Philip Rivers. And btw, I wouldn't call Cutler erratic either.

WestmontMike, I'm not a Bear apologist. It's a pipe dream and I don't feel it's that realistic to get Cutler from Denver. ESPN's Chris Mortensen says that Tampa Bay & (you guessed it!) Washington are believed to be the leading contenders to get #6 in Bronco blue & orange.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:11 pm 
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SHARK is right. Not so much about Cutler's attitude, but more due to the fact that they can't give the Broncos as much as the other teams involved here.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:13 pm 
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My image of SHARK is a guy sitting at his computer with two radios on, one on 1000, the other on 670, with multiple TVs tuned into ESPN, ESPN News, and Comcast Sports Net, with the Trib and Sun-Times Sports Sections open on his desk.

I can't be that far off.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:17 pm 
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I must admit, this is the FIRST column that actually was written decently. None of Mac's juvenile catchy phrases, it actually read like a column.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:18 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
T-Bone wrote:
April 2, 2009
BY DAN MCNEIL
Denver lost to Carolina, Buffalo and San Diego in its final three games. Cutler, who earlier in the year said he had a stronger arm than Hall of Famer John Elway, threw two touchdown passes and was intercepted four times in that stretch. His passer rating was lower than 50 in two of the losses.

Sounds more like Rex Grossman than Elway.



Um....no.
First of all, the Bronco D gave up 30, 30, and 52 points in the final 3 games you're referring to Mac. Second, Cutler had ratings of 74.3, 72.4, 74.9 in the final three games...none below 50 as you stated. Cutler had only 1 game all year with a QB rating under 50 and only 3 total games with a rating below 70. He completed 62% of his passes in the final three games and averaged 282 passing yards per game in those games...which happens to be exactly what he averaged (both completion % and yards/game) for the other 13 games. He threw a TD in all but 2 games and threw more than 1 INT in only 4 games. That doesn't sound like inconsistent to me. The fact is...the Bronco defense sucks AND their running game sucks. Jay Cutler, however, does not suck; he's the biggest reason the won the games that they did (and Ed Hoculi too). The final 3 games were against solid defenses that simply decided Jay Cutler wasn't going to beat them...it's SOP for good defenses against one-dimensional teams.
Comparisons to any Bear quarterbacks is just embarassing so let's not even go there.
Cutler's acting like a little baby and deserves all the bashing you can give him for that. But keep it off the field; on the field, Jay Cutler would be the best quarterback we've seen in the this town in most of our lifetimes.


Holy shit, you're right. And Mac said that bit about the passer ratings twice. That's a Northian level error. I just took it on faith to be true.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Score is doomed wrote:
I must admit, this is the FIRST column that actually was written decently. None of Mac's juvenile catchy phrases, it actually read like a column.


:shock:
But.... did you like it?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:21 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
Don't be brainwashed by the Bear-friendly media members. The Bears want Cutler, period. They won't get him because they don't have the ammunition or balls to pull off this type of trade.
erratic, smug, prima donna.... sounds like Philip Rivers before last year. Leave off erratic and it still sounds like Philip Rivers. And btw, I wouldn't call Cutler erratic either.

SHARK wrote:
WestmontMike, I'm not a Bear apologist. It's a pipe dream and I don't feel it's that realistic to get Cutler from Denver. ESPN's Chris Mortensen says that Tampa Bay & (you guessed it!) Washington are believed to be the leading contenders to get #6 in Bronco blue & orange.


Didn't I just say that the Bears aren't gonna get Cutler? I agreed with that part. And I also said it was because they have nothing to offer...

I disagreed that the Bears give a shit at all about Cutler's attitude...and the claim that he's erratic is complete BS that's being thrown around by Bear-friendly media that are trying to justify why this wouldn't be a good move to pursue. Because it is...and the Bears ARE pursuing it.

But in case you didn't read it, I don't think the Bears will get Cutler. I'll sit down and wait for you to repeat what I just said. Again.


Last edited by WestmontMike on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
SHARK is right. Not so much about Cutler's attitude, but more due to the fact that they can't give the Broncos as much as the other teams involved here.

The Bears could offer every pick for the next 3 drafts to get him. They just aren't dumb enough to overpay for Cutler who is far from the sure thing he is being made out to be.

Upgrade over Orton? Definately.
Upgrade over Orton + 2-3 valuable draft picks? Possibly.

The Bears offense has many question marks. OL, WR, and QB. Improving one of those and losing the chance to improve 2-3 of those is taking a big chance.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:33 pm 
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I love when IB takes Mac to task.....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:36 pm 
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I actually thought the column was pretty good until I found that out. I was thinking "oh wow, I didn't realize his passer ratings were so low down the stretch". I disagree with it, but I thought it was OK. But you can't have glaring factual errors like that.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:39 pm 
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I'm just curious if Mac is aware that Denver didn't have a solid RB and a solid D for most of the year. Cutler put up the numbers he did while playing from behind, when every team knew they were going to throw the ball. Denver's defense allowed 30 or more points 9 times last season. They allowed 20 or more points 12 times last season. Unless Cutler was the second coming of Johnny Unitas, that Denver team wasn't making the playoffs last season.

I don't understand why people are afraid to upgrade at the most important position on the football field. I'm not saying Orton is bad either. I'm just saying Cutler is better. And I'd rather have Cutler, even if he has some baggage.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:21 pm 
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My mistake, indeed. No excuses. I had a factual error and, given its importance to my point, makes a column a failure. I need to do my.....

Amidst debate about Cutler's ability and whether the Bears should get him.... why is NOBODY mentioning the Bears do NOT have the staff capable of developing him? That's kind of important and I should have played that up more in the column.


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