You mention how hard it is to attain takles as a middle linebacker so wouldn't you also agree that if a MLB has alot of takles, then it is an attestment to how great of a player he is? And as far as keying on the HB, almost half the plays are runs and it is the job of the middle LB to read the play and plug the hole which usually lead to the ball carrier. And the great ones will make the takle., ala Ray Lewis. Also, you mention interceptions but that can be misconstrued as well. The really good CB's will never have a ball thrown their way because of the fear of being picked up so that will reduce the number of oppportunities.

3-4 MLB =/= 4-3 MLB, especially in a Tampa 2 system. They are completely different beasts.

And yes, INTs are not a very good measure of DB ability either, for the reason you mentioned.

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Fire Phil Emery

I disagree with that. A bad player will not get takles so I think it is an oxymoron to have a bad player and high takle stat in the same sentence. You either make the play or you don't simple as that. It is the old saying, being in the right place to make the play. Weak players will not be in the right position and also will not make the takle. I believe that weak players are the ones who lose their jock straps on a fake or studder step. As much as I defend the takle stat, maybe if the NFL came up with a takle as percentage of defensive plays in a game which would show how many times he is around the ball throughout the course of the game. That would be comparable to comp/att, correct?

As far as stat keeping, I agree that team statisticians usually add a couple of takles after viewing the game film the day after and Urlacher has been known to be the benefactor to that. But I think that is a small variance in the total outcome.

I will give you 10 guesses as to who led the NFL in tackles last year (hint: he played OLB). You will not get it (assuming you don't google it).

Also, these are the top MLBs:

Jon Beason
Barrett Ruud
Kirk Morrison

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Fire Phil Emery

Please name few.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

See above post (note: Jon Beason is pretty good. The other two are not).

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Fire Phil Emery

Fuck that fucking fuck

wait, you're right, that's Gene Chizik. Yeah, I don't want him.

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Fire Phil Emery

I didn't claim to know the answer and I don't have time to guess. So hear is the list. Out of these players, who do you feel isn't good?


Tackles Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
Rk Player Team Pos Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Lng FF Rec TD
1 D'Qwell Jackson CLE ILB 154 95 59 2.0 -- 9 3 0 29 16 0 -- --
2 Patrick Willis SF OLB 141 109 32 1.0 0 11 1 1 86 86T 1 1 0
3 Jon Beason CAR MLB 138 110 28 0.0 -- 11 3 0 52 44 0 1 0
4 Barrett Ruud TB MLB 137 102 35 3.0 -- 8 2 0 10 10 0 1 0
5 Kirk Morrison OAK MLB 135 99 36 1.0 -- 2 1 0 0 0 2 -- --
6 James Farrior PIT ILB 133 87 46 3.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
6 London Fletcher WAS MLB 133 96 37 0.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
8 Jonathan Vilma NO MLB 132 98 34 1.0 -- 7 1 0 8 8 2 3 0
9 Gibril Wilson OAK SS 129 96 33 1.5 1 6 2 0 5 5 1 3 0
10 Jerod Mayo NE ILB 128 100 28 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
11 Eric Weddle SD FS 127 105 22 1.0 0 6 1 0 3 3 0 1 1
12 Paris Lenon DET MLB 121 81 40 1.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 2 0
13 Yeremiah Bell MIA SS 120 100 20 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 1 0
14 Eric Barton NYJ ILB 119 93 26 1.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
14 Karlos Dansby ARI OLB 119 95 24 4.0 -- 7 2 0 47 34 2 3 0
16 Ray Lewis BAL ILB 117 85 32 3.5 -- 12 3 0 43 29 2 2 0
17 Bradie James DAL ILB 116 80 36 8.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 2 0
17 Dhani Jones CIN MLB 116 75 41 0.0 -- 9 1 0 13 13 1 1 0
19 Chad Greenway MIN OLB 115 86 29 5.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 -- --
20 Channing Crowder MIA ILB 113 92 21 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
20 Thomas Davis CAR OLB 113 92 21 3.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 0
20 Ernie Sims DET OLB 113 71 42 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 0 -- --
23 DeMeco Ryans HOU MLB 112 86 26 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 3 0
24 Lance Briggs CHI OLB 110 90 20 0.5 0 13 3 0 12 9 1 2 1
24 Paul Posluszny BUF MLB 110 87 23 0.0 -- 7 1 0 9 9 1 1 0
26 Stewart Bradley PHI MLB 108 86 22 1.0 -- 7 1 0 17 17 1 1 0
27 Freddy Keiaho IND OLB 105 79 26 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 0 2 0
28 Pisa Tinoisamoa STL OLB 104 88 16 3.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 -- --
29 Keith Brooking ATL OLB 102 71 31 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 0 -- --
30 Antoine Bethea IND FS 101 74 27 0.0 -- 6 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
30 James Harrison PIT OLB 101 67 34 16.0 1 4 1 0 33 33 7 -- --
32 Gary Brackett IND MLB 99 71 28 0.0 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 1
32 Jamie Winborn DEN OLB 99 74 25 0.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 0 -- --
34 Keith Bulluck TEN OLB 98 75 23 0.5 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
34 Stephen Cooper SD ILB 98 72 26 1.5 -- 10 4 0 11 10 0 -- --
34 Bernard Pollard KC SS 98 78 20 0.0 -- 2 1 0 0 0 3 3 0
37 Thomas Howard OAK OLB 97 80 17 1.0 -- 6 1 0 -3 -3 2 -- --
38 Rashad Jeanty CIN OLB 96 63 33 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 0
38 Michael Lewis SF SS 96 76 20 2.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 1 0
38 Takeo Spikes SF MLB 96 61 35 1.0 -- 9 3 0 14 13 2 1 0
41 Erik Coleman ATL FS 95 80 15 0.0 -- 9 3 0 48 32 2 -- --
41 Antonio Pierce NYG MLB 95 72 23 1.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 -- --
41 Antoine Winfield MIN CB 95 81 14 2.0 0 13 2 0 5 4 4 2 1
44 Daniel Bullocks DET SS 94 64 30 0.0 0 -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 1
44 Curtis Lofton ATL MLB 94 67 27 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- --
44 Clint Session IND OLB 94 74 20 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 -- --
44 Lofa Tatupu SEA MLB 94 69 25 0.0 -- 5 1 0 16 16 1 -- --
44 Zach Thomas DAL ILB 94 65 29 1.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 0 1 0
49 Chris Gamble CAR CB 93 83 10 0.0 0 21 3 0 23 19 1 2 1
49 Quintin Mikell PHI SS 93 68 25 2.0 -- 12 3 0 53 41 2 -- --
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 next

I would love to have Ruud as MLB on the Bears right now.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Why? We have Nick Roach who has supplanted a borderline hall of famer and who you believe has been nearly as good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, let's start at #1 on the list. First, it just doesn't pass the smell test. Is D'Qwell Jackson the best LB in the NFL? Is he in your top 10? Top 25?

OK, let's get more thorough then that. I don't sit around charting every NFL game. But other people do. According to their numbers, Jackson was "successful" against the run 60% of the time, which was 68th in the league amongst linebackers. He was successful against the pass 42% of the time, which was 69th. He had a lot of chances for tackles, which means he made a lot of total tackles. But those numbers tell me that defenses were targeting him, not that he was making outstanding plays.

Now, success rate isn't the end-all of analysis. There's plenty more, and like I said above, I don't think individual defensive play is reducible to a number or set of numbers. But it tells us a lot more than raw tackling statistics, which are basically useless. Unless you think D'Qwell Jackson, Barrett Ruud, Kirk Morrison, and Paris Lenon are all top-10 LBs.

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Fire Phil Emery

where did you get those numbers from? And who are the leaders in the "guessing games" (however that is calculated)? And yes, I believe D'Qwell Jackson is a top 5 LB. The only one you mentioned that I don't think is a top 10 is Parris Lennon. But all of the others are worthy imo.

You seriously think D'Qwell Jackson is one of the top 5 linebackers in the NFL? Come on, that's laughable. You know what you would have with a LB corps of Jackson, Barrett Ruud, and Kirk Morrison? A really bad LB corps.

All numbers found in the Pro Football Prospectus.

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Fire Phil Emery

You can't dispute the fact that the Bears are 3-0 without Urlacher. Were you one of the guys who thought the Bears season was over when 54 went down? I wasn't.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Sorry. I just don't buy into those "successful" numbers. And yes, I honestly believe D'Qwell deserves that ranking. My top 10 consist of :
1 Patrick Willis
2 John Beason
3. DeMeco Ryans
4. London Fletcher
5. D'Qwell Jackson
6. Lance Briggs
7. John Vilma
8. Barrett Rudd
9. Kirk Morrison
10. Jared Mayo

IB, most of your posts are well thought out, but you have your head out over your skies on this one. To say a Linebacker corps of Jackson, Ruud, & Morrison would be bad is just plain ridiculous. In fact, it would be the best Linebacker corps in the NFL.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Thats dangerous logic, Darko. Trent Dilfer has a ring and Jim Kelly does not. Christ, Barry Sanders never even played in a super bowl.

Ern, Lance Briggs is better than every guy on that list.

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We are comparing Urlacher's success directly to Singletary's success here. The comment was that "some will never feel that Urlacher's career was as great as Simgletary's", so therefore, pointing out the significant difference between their career acheivements is probably less dangerous than you're giving it credit for.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I think Urlacher could win 2 rings and it would never compare to Singletary for some. Singletary also had a better supporting cast around him. Not denying either of them thier worthy HOF status, just that you know the meatball mentality when it comes to they '85 Bears.

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Urlacher is a hall of famer
Jon Beason, Patrick Willis, and Lance Briggs are the best LBers in the NFL
Singeltary was very good. Probably = Urlacher.

If you are truly saying that the Bears defense is better with Hillenmeyer or Roach at MLB then you are truly an idiot.
Let me ask you, if Manning gets hurt for the Colts and Sorgi leads them to 3-0 does that mean Manning is dispensable?
Your next screen name should be clueless douchebag just to give new readers a heads up.

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Sorry Frank, Patrick Willis is a beast. Did you see what he did last Sunday???

I stand by my original statement.

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I never said that the Bears Defense is better without Urlacher. Reading & comprehension are skills.
The Bears are 3-0 without Urlacher. #54 is over-rated.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

That's cool. You are entitled to it.

It's ok to be wrong...

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

No it wouldnt. But it certainly wouldnt be very bad. I dont think of Morrison as bad the few times I watch that D, but I dont think he's that good really. I disagree with IB on Ruud, I think he's pretty good. I think Jackson is pretty good too, maybe top 25, but certainly not top 5 IMO. In no way is Briggs a better football player than Willis. He's the best linebacker in the league right now. Briggs is certainly in the discussion after him though.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Hub just said that Patrick Willis is the best Linebacker in the NFL. I agree with him

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Fuck... Here I was pretty certain about what I just posted two minutes ago. May have to reconsider now.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul