Kyle Orton and Rex Grossman need everything else perfect to win you games. They need a great defense and special teams to go along with the offense they provide. Anything goes wrong and they fall apart.

Jay can overcome problems with one of the other 2 parts of the game and win games.

Rex and Kyle can't or can't consistently.

Why do you think they were Bears?

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

That's interesting, but I don't agree with that, being that Jay didn't have great defense or a perfect situation in Denver and yet he still was incapable of overcoming those short-comings...

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team Mully & Hanley
team Meatpants

First, Rex Grossman sucks. He's barely an NFL QB right now. The Orton-Grossman debate is officially over. Give it up.

With that said, you are right because at least so far in his career Orton hasn't been the type of QB to throw for four touchdowns and win a shootout game. He has shown an ability this year to play very well in the fourth quarter. Some call it luck but there comes a point where you make your own luck.

Every Bears fan here would take that exact game from Cutler on Sunday that Orton had. The Bears would probably win too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's as simple as this. The Broncos would be a better team with Cutler as the QB right now.

You are free to that opinion. I'm not smart enough to be able to predict the production of Jay Cutler in Denver this year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Furthermore, the Bears would not be 3-1 if Orton was still the QB here.

But lets send him to Honolulu anyway.

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The pro bowl isn't in Honolulu.

The funniest part of you portraying me as saying Orton was a lock for the pro bowl is that you responded that Mark Sanchez should go instead of him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You clearly are reading what you want to read. Show me where I said that "Sanchez is playing at a Pro Bowl level." You won't find it unless you doctor up some quotes. You said to give you guys that were playing similar to Orton. I said take a look at Sanchez's numbers his first 3 games and compare them to Orton's.

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My statement was actually "Name three players who are inarguably playing better in the AFC.". The third person in your list was Mark Sanchez.

No. In the same post, you reference Peyton Manning who is not playing similar to Orton. He's at another level to everyone in the AFC. If you were actually listing similar players Manning doesn't make that list.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Again, take Kyle Orton, Rick. Go ahead, be my guest. Take a QB who is playing pretty well, but has been the benefactor of a solid running game, a great defense, and long TDs because of poor tackling and a tipped ball. We all know thats the only way Orton gets a pass of over 40 yards anyway because he still can't throw a deep ball.

So take him. Have Hubble make up your #8 Denver jersey right now. I still would not be surprised if Denver misses the playoffs.

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In this thread, the only time I have "taken Kyle Orton" over someone else is over Rex Grossman.

I will "take Kyle Orton" over Mark Sanchez too for at least this year.

It sounds like you somehow take my defense of Kyle Orton as an attack on other players. I have only responded to people saying things I disagree with in regards to the play of Kyle Orton.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, its sounds as though you want Orton to be the MVP and Cutler to fail solely so you can be proven right with you comments on the Cutler trade.

I like Kyle Orton, and hope he does well. He was not the reason the Bears missed the playoffs this year. He still, however, is nowhere near a pro bowler yet.

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What? I rarely ever mention the trade any more. I almost exclusively talk about Orton. Cutler gets mentioned and mostly by others responding to me.

To be honest, if I was referencing the trade I would include the draft picks the Bears gave up including the fact that they could have had Jeremy Maclin.

I've said it since the start. I feel this was a great trade for a Kyle Orton fan. He was put into a much better situation in Denver. As someone who wants Orton to succeed, I'm glad he's gone.

I root for Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, and Kyle Orton. I want all three to do well. I don't get why it always has to be an Orton vs. Cutler thing.

To be honest, your comment is clearly off base because everyone on here knows that I am an Orton fan. I want him to do well because I like him. It has very little to do with my comments on the Cutler trade.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Orton>or<Cutler=Heath Ledger's Field Turf....keyboard.

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-"God is great. Beer is good. And People are crazy!"

This

If you're saying that, with respect to Denver, Orton and Cutler are essentially interchangable, that's just football retarded, plain and simple.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

There is no way to know how the team would be performing if the players were reversed. Cutler is better in many areas and Orton is better in a few.

They are not interchangeable. There are things Cutler can do that Orton doesn't even try any more. He has more physical ability than almost every other NFL QB.

Denver has gotten good QB play this year. Chicago has gotten good QB play this year. Unless you believe that Cutler would be putting up Peyton Manning like numbers in Denver then you can't know whether or not Denver would be a better team with him.

As others have said, the trade so far seems to have benefited both teams.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It wouldn't matter anyways. Any time a former Bears QB does good it's either luck or bad tackling.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are a football GM for a brand new team and you're first pick is for a QB. Your options are Orton and Cutler. Who do you take?

Jay Cutler is a physically more gifted QB who has a much higher ceiling. Jay Cutler could be the best QB in the league if he fixes the flaws in his game. He's very good now. If I'm building a team around a QB I want Jay Cutler.

However, through the early part of the season I am not sure that Cutler would have resulted in much difference in Denver(especially if you factor in that the Broncos got draft picks that are contributing too). They obviously couldn't have won more games and statistically Orton has been solid. That's why I don't think you can say the Broncos would be a better team with Cutler over Orton unless you believe Cutler would be statistically dominating what Orton has put up. Cutler would have to be putting up Peyton Manning like numbers to be significantly better than Orton's numbers.

There is more to QB play than stat sheets. Kyle Orton is a poor mans Ben Roethlisberger. He doesn't have overwhelming stats. Not a highlight film QB. His teams seemingly find a way to win.

I am glad that Orton is in Denver and doing well. I am glad that Cutler is in Chicago and doing well. Hopefully, they will be the Super Bowl participants.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'd pick Cutler too.

It comes down to this, when you have a good team, with a good line, good ground game, and a good defense that keeps the ball in your hands, you can plug in a mediocre QB and get great results. This does not describe the bears. They are not a good team with a good line and a good ground game and a good defense. Therefore, they need Cutler to excell in his position to get good results.
Bears without Cutler = bad.
Broncos with Cutler = even better than with orton.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I know I should back away from this but most people on here predicted the Bears to win about 4 games last year. The NFL is a funny league.

I know I should back away from this but most people predicted the Broncos to win about 4 games this year. The NFL is a funny league.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Since you are the guy who would prefer a coin flip over statistical based predictions... you of all people should know predictions don't mean anything.

Predictions don't mean squat to me in this scenario.
I really can't imagine the Broncos being anything other than better should they still have Cutler.
And I just can't see the Bears being as good as they are this year without Cutler. He's taken the Bears to a new level. Granted they're still exposed in many things but at least the guy under center isn't an issue.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Exactly, predictions are worthless.


Anyone who prefers worse players, over better players is a dumbass.

Like what, growing beards and boozing?

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No. I'm the guy that understands that any predictive model is only as good as a standard baseline of prediction. If you had come to Purdue instead of using it as a safety school you would have likely learned about this. Do you need me to explain the concept to you again?


So predictions mean squat to you but unprovable guesses as to team strength do?


My point all along is that at least through 5 games, QB play would have been on the level of Brees or Manning to make the Broncos significantly better. If you believe that Cutler would have 10+ tds and 5 or under ints that is your right. I doubt it. My guess is that Cutler would have slightly more yards, similar or slightly more td passes, and more ints.

Outside of the Green Bay game, you are right. Another tough test comes in the next few weeks. I like Jay Cutler and I think he's doing a good job.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I learned this at Wisco: Better players make teams better than worse players.