Rick, they could not run the ball last year. It was have Cutler throw the pigskin, or punt. Teams knew the Broncos were going to throw, so they could defend it better than a team with a better running game.

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I was just about to say this. Brees, Manning, McNabb, Rodgers. All had a ton of pass attempts last year and had 2-1 ratios. All with less INTS than Cutler.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ok but they were 12th in the NFL in rushing. Tied for 2nd in the NFL in Yards per Attempt. Tied for 14th in Rushing TDs. But yeah... never let the facts get in the way of a good argument there Frank.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

this thread will make more sense in week 10.

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@audioidkid

I know what you meant, but I felt compelled to be a ass and give some stats that show you're wrong because that's what I do.
Orton's 1st 5 games this year w/Broncos vs. Cutler's 1st 5 games last year w/Broncos

....... % / Comp / Att / Yrds / TD / INT / Y/Att / Y/Comp
Orton 63.03 / 104 / 165 / 1236 / 7 / 1 / 7.5 / 11.9 Bronco offense 19.8 ppg
Cutler 65.45 / 125 / 191 / 1502 / 10 / 4 / 7.9 / 12 Bronco offense 29.8 ppg

Please go to this link.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byposition?pos=QB&conference=NFL&year=season_2008&timeframe=All&sort=2&old_category=QB
Those are the top attempts by qbs last year.

5 of the top 6 had a ratio of 2 to 1. The one who didn't was Jay Cutler.

It is clear that your excuse does not match with the results from last year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So besides the team ppg they are pretty close.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

When the Broncos are 5-4?

You guys of all people should be leary of seating Orton at the right hand of the Father. Rex Grossman was the NFL MVP thru week 5 or 6 of the 2006 season.

Now, I doubt Orton will put up ratings of 10 or 0, but he will not make the pro bowl.

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yep..

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@audioidkid

that's right, Wannie

It should be pointed out the only one of the 3 i mentioned who has won games under playoff pressure is Grossman. Orton does not win the Seahawks game but Cutler does and Grossman did. All 3 probably beat the Saints.

Cutler is the only one of the 3 that would have won that Super Bowl.

If all the players in the NFL were available today in an open draft does anyone really believe Orton would go first?

The Broncos are 5-0 with Cutler Bears are 1-3 with Orton if the trade hadn't happened.

And if Orton hadn't been hurt in that one game Detroit is 1-15 last year instead of 0-16.

In reality Orton and Grossmans stats were very close but the media was in love with the butt kisser in Orton.

And in 2 games Orton left losing and Grossman came in and the Bears won.

And chances are Chris Sims is starting in Denver if the Broncos didn't feel they had to start the QB they traded for.

A friend said something the other night "isn't it nice that its a Chicago team taking advantage of another's teams pure abject stupidity since it's usually the other way around?"

Orton doesn't sit at the right side of the father. He is God according to the media and a lot of fans here.

Has anyone in Chicago sports ever had as much adulation for doing so little?

Yes, but who do you think is hotter?

_________________

Discussing football is not something you should do...ever.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'd say those are pretty much the same but if you want to give Cutler a slight edge in yards/att, I'd say it's offset by Orton's interception %.

In any case, it shows that Orton is at a level now where he could be considered an average to above-average QB. It is a furtherance of Orton's year-to-year development that shows improvements in almost every significant statistical category each year to the point now, that at age 27, he is already in the top 10-12 QB in the league statistically.

He may still fall apart but the evidence is growing and now, with almost 40 games in the league, he still has a .684 winning percentage which as the games mount is beginning to look less and less like a statistical anomaly.

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You know me like that.

Did you learn that while hanging with Paul Hubbard and Taylor Mehlhaff?

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If those are pretty much the same, then what about these #s:
....... 61.9 / 96 / 155 / 1100 / 7 / 4 / 7.1 / 11.5 Offense 25.6 ppg

Those are Orton's #s from his 1st 5 games last year w/the Bears. To me, there isn't a significant statistical improvement proving Orton has finally turned a corner in his career. He's basically doing the same thing he did last year. I'll wait to see if his last 5 games this year are better than last year's before I put him in the top 10 in the league.

I think everyone here besides Rick is underestimating the significance of not throwing interceptions. A turnover is the worst thing a QB can do. There's a big difference between 4-5 INTs and 1(especially since that 1 was a hail mary caught by Randy Moss)

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Is the fact that a poster with the name "FavreFan" is preaching the significance of not throwing interceptions ironic? I should email Mac.

Exactly. I think I would know first-hand.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Hahahah yes. I had plenty of classes with those two. Kenny DeBauche (punter) was a good friend of mine... same with Luke Swan (grindy white WR). They taught me all about fire and passion.

Great post Nas.
It's a hard sell to me to say that Denver wouldn't be as good with Cutler though. System be damned, Cutler is better at nearly every facet of the position. He's stronger, faster, less droppy. You make an excellent case, but I just can't get on board with that.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

It helps that they're a GREATLY improved defensive team. None of these games were really blowouts that the Broncos won, and last year their D was getting killed in those situations. Most of the 5-0 credit has to go to whatever improved this defense.
Shit man last year Cutler was tossin up toddies all over the place and they stil didn't get to the PS.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The only media reports like that came out after Orton's first preseason game where he was horrific. Even before Simms got injured Orton had secured his job.

Chris Simms has played in 4 games in four years and the one year he got decent playing time he was average at best.

Kyle Orton was never in a position to lose his starting job before the regular season. With the circus that was going on and the terrible first game Orton had there was speculation but it was nothing more.

Compare the two resumes of the qbs and tell me why anyone would ever consider benching Kyle Orton for Chris Simms before the first game even started.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As I said, Orton was playing bad but so was Simms. Therefore, you go with the guy who actually has a history of being decent.


Prior to his spleen injury, Simms had 12 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. The season in which he had the spleen injury he was 1 td and 7 ints.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, if you base it off each players first 15 games you are right but I choose to ignore 2005.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Simple fact is, the numbers dont support this idea that you cannot win with Orton. The numbers support the exact opposite. Whatever holes he might have in his game, lack of any real special physical ability, the kid wins.

And I wish to hell that someone would bring that up to B&B, because I remember the day that they said, "nobody can win with Orton", and that "he will never win a game for you". The numbers didn't support that idea at the very moment they made those statements, and seems to me, Orton just essentially did win a game for the Broncos, with a 98 yard drive.

I'm happy as hell to have Cutler, and I absolutely support the trade, but I never bought into the idea that you couldn't win with Orton. We actually did, and now the Broncos actually are.

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"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

Ironically before he signed with the Broncos and before we made the trade I thought bringing in Chris Simms in was a decent idea.

so this makes more sense now?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

how weird i was just thinking about this tonight after the MNF game. Maybe this was said since I didnt read all 4 pages of this thread.

Why does Culter look like Orton and Orton look like Cutler in two zero zero nine???

It's because the Bears system/tradition/history is piss ass shit when it comes to passing the ball or managing an offense. I don't follow the Broncos, but I am guessing they have some kind of successful tradition/legacy in their passing game ??? elway