Agreed. Thats why I questioned everybody here being so sure he would improve, and was quickly dismissed as being a biased packers fan. He hasnt shown any progression(or regression either to be fair) his whole career.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not a stats person and didn't follow Denver a lot. That said he faced differents sets of challenges in each city. He is talented and seems smart. With a decent line I really think he could be a great qb.

He's had a good-great offensive line his entire stint with Denver.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

different set of problems...one dimensional offense, had to pass, had to force things, beacuse they were behind a lot. The defense was no good.

A lot like Sunday against the bengals.

It sound excusey on my part. I see talent here, I love him. If he never pans out I'll be extremely disappointed but still glad they took the chance.

We're still in the savior worship/optimism stage of the Cutler relationship. After management and coaching, he'll be the next scapegoat.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

I know how you feel.


Isn't it funny that he brought these same problems with him to Chicago? Talk about being unlucky. He leaves Denver and they discover running the ball and become multi-dimensional. He comes to chicago and they forget how to run the ball and become one-dimensional. Probably just a coincidence though.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

By all indications they had an above average running game last season. But you're right about their defense, it was bad. But they werent playing from behind all that often and actually started the season out tremendously.



That makes sense. Everyone sees the talent there. He's one of the top 3-5 most talented in the NFL easily. I just think its an enormous red flag that he hasnt seemed to improve at all from his great rookie season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think with decent protection and good coaching he could be really special.

That was never the case with jay fiedler, he sucks.

I cant blame the coaches for his lack of progression. He's a big boy. Besides, if he wasnt a baby he would currently be playing for a great coach.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

WHAT? So now McDaniels is a great coach?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

How isnt he? I guess you can its too early to tell, but what about him doesnt seem great?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Come on FF, he has coached 6 games and that makes him great? Please tell me you are kidding or being sarcastic.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

that's ok. Ignore my question because it's unanswerable given your position and simply point to inexperience. Nas tried the same thing about chris paul and ap two years ago and it didn't exactly work well. I'll just say if he's not a great coach he should move to vegas cuz he's the luckiest guy in the world

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That doesn't even make any sense, FF. We're talking about 6 games here. If I remember correctly, the new Indy coach is also doing pretty well... but he's not "great".

Brad Childress got my vote for HOF

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You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

it only doesn't make sense if you limit yourself to assessing based on an extended history. While that helps, it's also why we tend to overrate players and coaches later on. At about this point in his rookie year ap was the best rb in the nfl. Every move off the field he's made has worked out great. His best feat might be making marshall into a great team player. And his in game coaching from the games i have seen has been superb. I already have a history of not buying the need years to prove yourself argument so try to answer my original question to rfdc or let's just agree to disagree

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

terrible example. He has a history of not getting the most out of his players and making poor decisions regularly in game. Sarcasm fail. Ugie's caldwell example is better but he has one of the best qb's in history in his prime and a team that regularly wins 12 games. Look at denver the last couple years and this year. Thinking critically should not be this difficult guys.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So you instead choose to do so 6 games into his head coaching career?

i guess you're the type of fan that was insisting ap wasn't the best in the league his rookie year because he hadn't done it for years. That's ok. Some people just take longer to come to the same conclusion as others.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think Daniels is a good coach, not a great coach. My sarcasm was towards your readiness to induct Daniels to the HOF already after 6 games. Your comparison to AP is not the same, ap is a great player period. Getting the best out of yourself as a player and getting the best out of a team are not the same IMO. I will agree to disagree on this one.

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

or maybe the $ Marshall will be recieving can be lead to him being a better "team player"

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

Exactly. Great point.

A coach has numerous other things that have to fall into place in order for that coach to be considered "great". Winning for longer periods of time, for example, would be a good start. Players have the luxury of earning that distinction much earlier because they are the ones making the plays. If you lead the NFL in most rushing categories pretty regularly, then you deserve to be considered "great".

um right. Cuz he was thinking about that in training camp and preseason. Everyone around there including marshall credits mcdaniels. I guess you guys agree that he basically has made great decisions on and off field without screwing anything up yet but dont think thats enough yet to consider him great at his job. Fair enough. We have plenty of time, we'll see who does up being right.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Training camp and preseason don't excatly equate to regular season as I never seen anyone get paid for "great" play in exhibition games but sure whatever, i'm sure I'd say the same thing maybe spin control? For me it's not about being right or wrong, but if that's your thing that have at it. I just think you toss out the word great like it's nothing, I think we have two different opinions on the word "great" that's all. And for what it's worth, I like McDaniels, I just reserve my "greatness" for a larger body of work as a coach.

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

i really dont have a broad definition of great. In nfl terms i'd say thats top 3-5 at your position. I generally dont think too highly of many coaches though so the bar, in my eyes, isn't set too high. And i'm not talking about great play with marshall. I'm talking about him blocking hard and doing little things. Embracing mcdaniels after each win. Everyone on the team acknowledging his attitude change.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

But isn't that what the "greats" do, make good blocks and the little things.besides just making the catches? Fair enough, I guess Marshall has become the new Cedric Benson

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

well not really. Most consider moss, harrison, carter great wr's but they aren't/weren't good blockers really. i dont remember ever seeing marshall play like this. We'll know soon enough if he's sincere

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

mcdaniels = gruden...?

nah...hhtt yet i guess.

FF, normally I consider you to be one of the most objective and bright posters around here, especially when talking NFL and hoops. But on this one right here, you are completely off your rocker. He is not great in 6 games. He has led his team to win 6 games, there is no way you can be great in just 6 games. So if the Bronocos lose the next 6 games in a row, will he still be great? What if they finish the season at 8-8 or 9-7, is he still great?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."