Often, there will be particular players that, if they blitz, the QB knows they will come unblocked and it is his responsibility to make the throw before the defender gets there. There were a few plays yesterday where Cutler held onto the ball far longer than he should have, regardless of the quality of the O-line.

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Fire Phil Emery

Ok, but do you think he held onto the ball because his WR wasn't open?

It's pretty much impossible to tell without game tape. One of the most frustrating things about the NFL is that they don't make game tape available to the public. People like me would gladly pay a lot of money to get the full set of camera angles for a given team, even if it was only made available after the season.

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Fire Phil Emery

The answer to this: Zero. Not one goddam sack. A beatup, piece meal Packer Oline didn't allow one sack, to the 32nd ranked defense. Meanwhile, Cutler was running for his life pretty much all game yesterday. But yeah, that Packers' Oline is so much worse!

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you're right frank because one game is worth a complete season's analysis. Get a clue. And by the way, it is very obvious by now both lines are horrible but like i and others have said rodgers is a great example of the fact that you can still play great with a terrible line. This can't be disputed

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So the edge the Packers have with WR help is worth 30 QB points? You said slightly better, so let's say 5-10 ratings points. So the GB WR's are worth 20-25 QB ratings points better than the Bears WR corps? Thats ridiculous.

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Bingo!

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

When have I said that Rodgers is not playing good/great/grand/wonderful?

Get a goddam clue yourself.

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FIXED.

jennings hasn't done shit this year and grant is mediocre at best

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Grant- 525 yards rushing, 124 rec yards, 3TD's
Forte- 408 yards rushing, 185 rec yards, 3TD's

Jennings - 30-440-2 As a #2
Knox 24-310-3 As a #2

Both positions are in favor of GB.

Do you have game tape that lets you read the defenses and watch the routes develop? Because, if you don't, you have no fucking clue, because all you see is a person chasing after the QB that hasn't thrown the ball yet. There are any number of problems it could be.

Are the Bears worse than Tampa, Kansas City, and Oakland?

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Fire Phil Emery

Anyone who watches a Bears game can see that our WR's never get any separation. They are always covered & in traffic. How do you not see this? You gotta a little Bernsy in you...

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

On 90% of the plays you can't see the WRs at all, because they are outside of the camera screen, unless you're getting the special broadcasts no one else is. How would you know if they are getting separation or not on those plays? How would you know, on plays where the QB is sacked and the camera never moved downfield, that the WRs didn't get separation? The answer is that you have no clue, and you are just guessing. And is it a failure of one of the WRs? Just the WR that happens to be the WR on a single play? Is the play design flawed? There is no possible way of knowing without seeing the entire field. So why pretend that you do know?

Also: 38 catches through seven games sure is a lot for a WR that can't get any separation. Devin Hester must be unbelievable at catching the ball in traffic, wrestling the ball away from defenders, etc. Except for that he's definitely not good at those things, and yet he's still on pace for 80-85 catches.

Also also: "getting separation" and running precise routes are not necessarily the same thing.

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Fire Phil Emery

I'm still waiting, ff, for you to quote me saying that Rogers is not playing great this year.

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This wasn't intended to be a Cutler vs. Rodgers argument. The reason I brought him up is to show a prime example of how you can play great with a terrible line. Cutler isn't. And I dont think the disparity between talent in the WR corps is THAT big a difference. I just think there's too much excuse making for Cutler. Rick seems to be the only Bears fan who consistently has said he would like his Pro Bowl/Franchise QB to play like one, and recognizes he's not.

As to the original point of this thread, no it's not Cutler's fault and he's not even close to the top of their priority list. Much like the Packers they desperately need to upgrade both lines, but especially offensive line. I think Hester is a legitimately good WR and playmaker, but the WR corps needs more talent and depth. They need to find out if Forte sucks or if he's good. Cutler shouldn't be a concern/priority when addressing team needs this offseason. But he isnt playing consistently at all and that will become a major concern if/when the Bears address their other. bigger weaknesses.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Really? Seriously? You're joking, right?

I'm with FF on this debate. As IB stated earlier Hester is in the top 15 of key WR statistics. You can't have it both ways and quote stats to support your argument for how good some receivers are and then poo poo Hester's numbers. GB WR's are better, but not that much better that it explains away all the differences between Cutler and Rodgers' numbers to this point. The line is definitely bad in run blocking and marginal in pass blocking. I think if you took Forte and put him behind GB's line, he would find some gaps where there have been few if any behind this Bears line.

What I will give you is that certain GB receivers do warrant double team coverage where as the Bears receivers don't as of yet - but if Hester continues to progress as well as Knox and Bennett, that should provide some benefits in scheme defensive coverages.

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Charlie: Oh shit. Look at that door dude. See that door right there? That door marked 'Pirate'? You think a pirate lives in there?
Dennis: I see a door marked 'Private.'

of course not. Are you joking? Do you really feel the gap is large enough to warrant 8 more ints in just 7 games and the best rated qb to the 20th best?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I never said it was.

OK well we will see. I dont think you are right, but we'll revisit this I'm sure at the end of the year. And it's at the halfway point of the season. It's worth discussing. Otherwise you really cant talk about anything untill the season is over if you are going with that logic.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not sure how they will be able to play 21 games but that will certainly be quite a feat.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Bartender, I'll have what he's having.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Brad Biggs article. http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/11 ... _comi.html
Here are a couple highlights.

I remember the first play Biggs mentions. That was just a failure to block on Forte's part. Nothing more complicated.

I don't remember off the top of my head the second play, but there's two possibilities:

1.) The LB was Olsen's responsibility
2.) The LB was the QB's responsibility, and the offense was going to rely upon their numberical advantage to attempt to burn the blitz.

Besides from Ron Turner and the members of the offense, I don't think anyone knows the answer for certain, because either is plausible (indeed, every team will face this situation a few times in each game, and each team will do both).

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Fire Phil Emery

I have a problem with "stone soup" defenses of Jay Cutler. If anyone doesn't remember the old stone soup story, the idea is that a guy swindles a miser into making him dinner by telling him that the only ingedient he'll need to use is a stone and water. Then he says that a little salt and pepper would help. Then he says some herbs. Then vegetables. Then meat. Etc.

If your only argument is "just wait until you see how good Jay Cutler would be with a great O line, and a fantastic running game, and pro bowl wide receivers", then you're not really making an argument about Jay Cutler's ability.

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Fire Phil Emery

Let us know when someone actually makes that argument.

If he doesn't get a better O-line, he'll be mush, IB. Nothing else needs to be changed on offense to make the Bears a legitamate threat...

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i hadn't heard that analogy but yeah i think that's the point me and rick were tryin to make

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's not my argument at all. It's frustrating that every mistake the 'team' makes is an indictment on Cutler's ability as a QB. I don't think he needs a 'great o-line, a 'fantastic running game' or 'pro bowl WR's' to be good (he proves that every game) but competent players who know their assignments would certainly help.