We'll let this thread continue until Cutler proves to be the All Pro QB that he was predicted to be. Then we will close this matter.

Could be a while...Anyways the thread will be reborn if Cutler wins big or excels...it will then be used to heckle BoilerMaker Rick roundly unfair as that may seem to some. It will happen.

Fixed.

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The title of the thread is what I greatly disagree with. He is still a franchise QB, he just needs to play better. And so do the people around him.

That, and half a season of bad/medicore play does not mean he can no longer be called a franchise QB.


Lately, there have really been some strange, silly posts from a lot of the guys that are presumed to have a very high football IQ here on this board.

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perhaps you should consider it's not them then. Could be the eye of the beholder

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You mean I'm wrong about the Bears Oline being the same as last year and Bellichek making the wrong move last night?

Mmmmmm, Nope.

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rick said the line was the same right? Well i disagree with that. I think it's worse. Although i dont think in any way it excuses cutler's play and i already have given you a prime reason why multiple times. Belichick did make the right call last night. It just didn't work out. Like ib has said, the inherent randomness wasn't on their side.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yeah, and IrishBoy also would have crowned the undefeated Patriots Super Bowl champs in December and moved on.

But numbers and %'s sometimes don't help you much when you actually have to play the games now do they?

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maybe he would have, you'd have to ask him. I picked the giants to win that game. Of course you have to play the games. The result of the play doesn't have any bearing on the validity or lack thereof of the playcall. It's just as silly to say a good call was bad because of a bad result as it is to say a bad call was good because of a good result. Like i asked kirk, if a team is down 2 on the other team's 10 and they have time for one last play, it's obvious to kick it. If for some insane reason the team throws a td pass does it make the decision to throw instead of kicking it a good one?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There were multiple threads in which he said that the best team didn't win, and that 8 or 9 times out of 10, the Pats would win the SB.

And maybe thats true, but who has the ring, and who lost the game yesterday? Sometimes, you need to tell your statistics to shutup.

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Yeah I dont disagree with you on that. I even disagreed with him at the time about it. I dont think the Pats at that point and time were that much better than the Giants. I thought the Giants had the edge in key categories and thats why I picked them to win.

But I while I value talking about the NFL with IB, I dont really care about his opinion a game that happened two years ago. My point is that the result does not define the playcall. Like he tried to demonstrate to some of you guys in his coaching thing, you cant guess 100% right all the time. Meaning the best team wont always win and the best call wont always work. This isn't an absolutist sport.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Its not an absolutist sport, and thats precisely why whatever stats and %'s that are out there about 4th & 2, that doesn't mean it was the correct decision to go for it and not punt. But according to IB, the numbers don't lie and going for it was correct-- the true absolutist point of view.

The SB example is just the one that jumped out from memory of IB going solely by what the math says.

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OK well will you please humor me and answer my hypothetical question posted earlier? You are of the mind that the result defines the quality of the call. So....

The Bears are losing to the Packers 26-24 with 2 seconds left in the game. They have the ball on the Packers 8 yard line. Robbie Gould is not injured at all. Lovie decides to throw the ball instead of kick it. Cutler hits Olsen for a TD and the Bears win. Was that a good call by Lovie? Or would kicking the FG be a much better call?

Yes I realize I'm going to an extreme example on this but I dont understand how so many fans for some reason believe that the result determines the quality of the call.

Belichick made the right call. It didn't work out. He hasn't always made the right call. But he's made more right calls than any coach in the past couple decades.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Its not all that hypothetical, beacuse Lovie Smith might be the only coach in the league to go for the TD rather than kick the FG.

Go see what the Jaguars did yesterday.

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Yeah and I already posted that in the NFL Week 10 thread and thought it was a great idea by Jack Del Rio and give props to MoJo for willingly doing it. If they had missed the FG I still think it would have been a terrific idea.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I wanna say there was somebody from the Eagles who basically knelt down at like the opponents 3 yard line in order to run the clock out, rather than score. Was that last year?

again, a great idea.

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Westbrook

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You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

Wasn't it two years ago? And I think they were ahead. Kinda changes the scenario a bit. But I agree I think those were great calls. I dont think they were because they resulted in the win. I think they were based on their own strategic merit.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Your ability to bungle even the most straightforward of arguments never ceases to amaze me, Frank. I never said that the Giants weren't the true "champs". The team that wins the championship game are the champions. That much is simple enough.

I said that the best team does not always win the championship. There is absolutely no reason to think that the best team always and inevitably wins a playoff. If that was so, why not line up all 32 teams for a single-elimination five game playoff? You could run four a year in the same space of the NFL season. Wouldn't that be a better way to figure out the "greatest team"?

Of course the answer is no, and the reason is obvious. We need to establish a large enough sample size to determine which teams are worthy of entering a playoff, which necessarily entails some random noise because the results of every single game are potentially determinative of an entire season. In a playoff where all entrants have relatively similar records of achievement, the winner of the playoff is presumably the best team because it has gone on to accumulate the most impressive record of achievement.

However, in a situation where one team has demonstrated clear and absolute dominance over the rest of the league, their superiority isn't defeated by losing a single game, and certainly not losing a single game by three points. Champion =/= greatest team in every single circumstance. A league has to (I guess) announce an absolute champion that doesn't depend upon subjective evaluations of quality. I am under no such restraint, so I can feel free to look at 19 or 20 games worth of evidence and say that one team is actually better than another, regardless of the results of a single game.

Now, I have no idea how many filters that's going to have to be run through in order to translate it into a Frank-accessible language, and I fear what it will look like when you are through mangling it.

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Fire Phil Emery

This is why we have the "Greatest Teams That Never Won Anything" thread. These teams have to be honored somehow.

ib that ending cracked me up

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

BEARS

GREATEST! BEARS! TRADE! EVER!

The Kyle Orton fan club is losing members fast.

Jay is our Quarterback.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

He played awesome today. Couple of throws were bad (how Trufant didn't pick that pass at the goaline, I have no idea) but if Jay plays they way he did today next weekend, SUPER BEARS SUPER BOWL MY FRIENDS

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The play on the field is all fine and dandy Frank but I heard he farted near the security guard and he gave the equipment guy a dirty look.

Cutler can carve up the leagues 27th best pass defense with the best of them.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

If Cutler plays well next week and the Bears win I officially take back my thought that Jay Cutler is not a franchise QB.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I know we are on the same side of this debate... but the "couple throws were bad" thing really isn't a big deal. It's fucked up, IMO. Other QBs are allowed to make mistakes. Cutler throws 2 tuddies, runs for 2, gets a +100 QBR and people focus is on his bad throws. If Manning throws a pick, people brush it aside. If Brees throws a pick-six, no big deal. Those guys are winners.

If Cutler throws an incomplete pass that COULD have been intercepted, it's "bad Jay" and he is an awful person who likely throws puppies out of the window of a moving car.


BREAKING NEWS: Cutler isn't perfect. Not every pass will be a touchdown.