Its also very clear that overall this team is a lot worse than it was last year. They were 9-7 last year, and of course everybody though that Cutler would make this team 10-6, and that would be good enough for the playoffs. So 1 more win wasn't an outlandish prediction.

I don't think anybody expected the team overall to be this bad.

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Cutler's performance this season isn't that much worse than what he did last season--it's just that his selection to the Pro Bowl last season turned out to be complete BS. Pennington and Rivers should've been invited to the Pro Bowl before Favre and Cutler last season. Jay Cutler is who those who ( like John Clayton ) called BS on his Pro Bowl selection last season thought he was--the new Jeff George.

I don't think "regret" is the right word. "Regret" should be used for something that is a definite failure. It may end up being a great trade for the Bears. It also may be historically bad.

The early returns are that it was a very bad trade. He's been worse than anyone imagined even the biggest skeptics of the trade. It's hard to make a case right now that any QB in the league who will not be benched or hasn't been benched yet *and isn't a rookie* is playing worse than him. If he plays like this for the next 3-5 years then every person on here will regret this trade. I'm pretty sure that whoever gets fired this year will regret it because not only did it cost the Bears two very valuable draft picks for this year but it also ended up with the Bears having worse QB play than last year. This is a fact. Not only was the quality of play at the QB position improved but we have two positions that didn't get strengthened through the draft. The funniest part about this trade is that the 3 people who got the most excited about it(Lovie, Turner, Angelo) may all lose their jobs because of it.

The current returns on this trade are that it was a mistake. There really isn't any argument against that. That doesn't mean that it's going to continue to have that but with what we have seen this shouldn't be argued by anyone. This was a 9-7 team last year that narrowly missed the playoffs and now they are a team that is only going to win 6 games because they are better than the bottom tier of NFL teams(Detroit twice, Cleveland, St. Louis).

Jay Cutler can improve. Jay Cutler can fix the major holes in his game. However, let's not make the mistake of treating Cutler like a rookie. This is the start of the prime of his career. This was one of the major themes of how amazing this trade was. We were getting an all pro QB just as he entered the prime of his career. This wasn't drafting Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russel because of the great physical ability they have and the flashes of greatness they have shown. This may very well be who Jay Cutler is. Just like everyone now believes that Kyle Orton isn't that good but is being propped up by the greatness of Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal maybe the same thing happened with Cutler. The offensive line has gotten worse for the Bears but the receiving core is improved from last year and I still have a hard time believing that Matt Forte has regressed that much. This kind of a drop in production is normally accompanies by a major injury or a few seasons in a row of heavy workload. Knox is proving himself to be an upgrade over Rashied Davis and one would have to assume that a full year of experience for Devin Hester at WR has helped. It's really an impossible thing to know but the WR core is upgraded over last year in my opinion. The RB is the same but not performing as well. The O-line is worse but I still think that is over emphasized.

I said when the trade first happened that this is the kind of deal you make when you feel you are close to a championship just like the Vikings did with Favre and Favre was basically free to them.

It's kind of funny to me that when this trade first happened any question about whether or not it was the right move was shot down like I was a blind defender of Kyle Orton because he went to the same school as I did. Now, it's "well, I'd still make the trade" or "he sucks now but he'll be great soon!". I had never even considered the possibility that he would be the worst QB in the league to play the whole season without being benched. If Kyle Orton had the exact same stat line this year he'd have been benched, he'd be gone after the year, Hanie would be in and Orton would be looking for a backup role next year. Kerry Collins was a "pro bowl QB" last year and his time with the Titans seems over and his statistics aren't that much different.

Basically, what I am saying is that there is no way you can argue that the trade has been anything but unsuccessful so far. The only argument is whether or not things will suddenly get much better. There is a very real possibility that improvement will do no more than put him into the average to above average category. That isn't good enough for what the Bears gave up and those draft picks are going to really hurt in the future, along with Cutler's big salary cap hit. That isn't something that most people seem to ignore in this. Cutler is paid or will be paid very well for his services. It's worth it when that player meets or exceeds expectations but when he doesn't you get seasons like this. You know how the offensive line sucks? There are two ways to fix it. One is through free agency. The other is through the draft. Trading and then paying Jay Cutler has made both of those way more difficult.

It's too early to make a determination on this trade(even though many already called it a success the moment it was made) but if Cutler doesn't get better than Grossman and closer to Rivers or Brees then it will have been a mistake.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hasn't Chicago learned anything from judging early returns?

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The Bears made this trade on talent alone. Not his ability to win, which he hasn't. But it is worth noting that the team he came from wasnt exactly well rounded either. He is a rough gem, and the problem that people like myself had, was relying on the Bears to coach him to the next level, which is an absurd notion.

The Broncos have shown, as the Bears did, that you can win with Orton. Nobody, aside from two afternoon know-it-alls, ever disputed that. But the upside of Cutler, is astronomical. There is no way you don't make that trade, inept coaching/front office included. I absolutely think he eventually takes that next step, whether or not the Bears solve the multitude of issues they have. And that starts with having a HC, who has a spine. The idea that Lovie is anything more behind closed doors, than what we see, is silly. This team needs tough love.

The simple question is whether you see Cutler a winner on a team that has adequate talent and coaching to play at this level. Substitute him with any QB, on any winning team, and I think it is obvious that he would be a winner. The fact that we were sold this idea that a young QB, with elite level talent, would somehow be able to drag the rest of these players out of mediocrity (or less than), was a slap in the face. Never happened before, isn't going to happen.

I don't know how we get to the point of openly acknowledging the holes on this team, at every single level, and then focusing on Culter...

And I dont if people missed the Aikman statement about his dedication, because it was late in the game, but he said that after the 5 int game in SF, they got home at 5am, and when everyone else went home, Cutler went up to HH to watch tape...

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"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

When Jay Cutler is surrounded by talent, he will be talented.

What a superstar! What a unique snowflake!

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Fire Phil Emery

All the "talent" in the world doesn't mean anything when you perform so poorly on the field. At this point, it's a pretty large gap between how he is playing and top 5 NFL QB. Top 5 NFL QB is where he needs to get to validate the trade. This was one of the most expensive trades in the past 20 years if not in NFL history. The two trades I can think of that were more expensive ended up being busts for the teams who got the player(Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker).


OH MY GOD! After playing one of the worst games by a QB in the NFL this year he decided to go watch some tape for a few hours! I guess he's just about to figure it out.

How did he perform in the next game after all that tape study?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not to mention the fact that the WR core is significantly improved from last year. Bennett and Knox are a significant improvement over Booker and Davis. Devin Hester is better than last year just from experience and the TE's are still here. Matt Forte is still here and I doubt he forgot how to play football in the off season.

Really, the only downgrade has been the offensive line but the "talent" of Cutler should be making up for that. Is it too much to ask that Jay Cutler performs as well as the much less talented Kyle Orton did last year?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This cannot be stressed enough. If your defense is "Jay Cutler can't make this team better all by himself", then you've already lost on the "was the trade worth it" argument. You don't give up as much as they gave up to have a QB that will perform well when everything is made juuuust so for him.

PSA: Peyton Manning has won fewer than 10 games once since his rookie year in 1998. You think all those teams were uber-talented?

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Fire Phil Emery

The Patriots went 12-4 in 2006, with Brady throwing for 220 yards per game, Reche Caldwell and Ben Watson as the leading receivers, and no 1,000 yard rushers.

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Fire Phil Emery

1)Patriot Defense 2006 allowed 237 points (14.8/g), 2nd.

2)Belichik > Lovie

3)Patriots offensive line >>>> then Bears offensive line.

Please stop with all these meatball post!

So...the difference between pro bowl QB play and arguably the worst NFL play in the league is defense, a different defensive head coach, and the O line. Please slowly explain to me how the Bears defense makes Cutler score more interceptions. I'll hang up and listen for my response. Kthxbai.

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Fire Phil Emery

That is absurdly stupid. You are telling me you can insert any other QB into this abomination, and they win? This kid has fuckall to work with.

You want to act like an overemotional twat, be my guest. But this is one fucking year, so ease it up a bit before you start tossing the word bust around.





Again, simply something to point out to the same unimpressive turds who complain his heart isn't into it.

How there is this much criticism for this kid, is beyond me. They don't have a fucking running game, via the o-line! They don't have a fucking secondary!! And you complain about a kid forcing the ball? He is surrounded by shit.

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"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

There are plenty of QB's that would have the Bears at 6-5 this year at least. The San Fransisco game for certain would have been won by any decent QB. There are many who would have won the GB or Atlanta games.


Head to your bathroom and find a mirror. It seems like the one putting emotion into it is the one blinded by what you want him to be.

Again, since you seemed to miss the point. In order for the topic of conversation(the trade) to be a success, Jay Cutler needs to be a top 5 NFL QB. Do you think he's anywhere close to it or has he regressed greatly from it to the point where being a top 15 NFL QB would be an improvement?


Playing QB is tough and when you play badly you get scrutinized. The same thing happened with Grossman. The same thing happened with Orton. The same thing is currently happening with more than a few QB's currently who are playing better than Cutler.

He's playing worse than Rex Grossman ever did. Do you feel that was unfair also to criticize him?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Looking at his #s he has always been pretty average. I think he is doing okay considering the well below average around him.

I think he has been showing pretty good leadership and but the decision making is bad. He is not winning when he has the chance and that is a huge dissappointment for me. If this is why some in Denver didn't mind seeing him go I can understand that. I think he has the talent if his head catches up with him it's gonna be special. He was worth the risk.

Maybe he is an average player that the Bears paid too much for, maybe he will pan out. I don't know why either side is so sure what he is.

He hasn't been not spectacular but I wouldn't say he is awful. Without even an average defense, o line, and run game he really has no shot.

Biased Purdue fan!
You just miss Kyle Orton.
You wouldn't be saying this if Cutler went to Purdue.
Bias! Bias! Bias!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Cutler argument is soooo played.

1st - You don't hang up and listen for your answer on the INTERNET!.

2nd - J.Cutler has already proven himeself as a pro bowl QB. I never said defense was the reason he was having a bad year. The Broncos had just as bad of a defense as the Bears and he still passed for 4,000 yards and made the pro bowl. What I was saying (I'll say it slow for you to understand) The Patriots went 12-4 BECAUSE they had a great defense, head coach, OL, and a HALL OF FAME QB.

3rd - Why do I have to explain why a bad OL and coaching would cause more INT? It's hard to throw a strike when you can't set and throw without getting your brains beat in. The run game is a joke, the receivers suck, Olsen is overrated, Turner still can't put together a creative gameplan exc exc. That said, Cutler needs to stop the redzone INT. That is the one major problem I see with Cutler that would prevent him for becoming the franchise QB the Bears are banking on.

4th - Are you saying the Bears coaching staff is equal to the Patriots? I don't see how you can compare a future hall of fame QB and coach, with a bunch of pro bowlers on defense to this years Bears team. Meatball with spaghetti on top!

Enough with the worthelss "Jay Cutler made the Pro Bowl" argument. It means almost nothing.

Go look at Cutler's stats for 2008--when he was VOTED to the Pro Bowl. They aren't that great.

Pro Bowl selection is about as valid an indicator of excellence at a position as winning a Gold Glove is in baseball.

Pennington and Rivers--at least-- belonged in last year's Pro Bowl ahead of Cutler and Favre.

Both Pennington and Rivers led their teams to the playoffs last year, something Cutler has NEVER done, and likely never will.

Brian Griese went to a pro bowl in Denver too. Had he "proven himeself as a pro bowl QB" too? Kerry Collins was a pro bowl QB last year. I bet teams will be lining up to get him since he has "proven himeself as a pro bowl QB".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

When have the Bears last had a QB in the pro bowl?
*Crickets*



Change that statement to :

Pennington and Rivers--at least-- belonged in last year's Pro Bowl ahead of Orton and Favre.

or

Pennington and Rivers--at least-- belonged in last year's Pro Bowl ahead of Grossman
and Favre.

or

Pennington and Rivers--at least-- belonged in last year's Pro Bowl ahead of J.Miller and Favre.

We would have to go all the way back to:
Pennington and Rivers--at least-- belonged in last year's Pro Bowl ahead of S.Luckman and Favre.

We finally have a YOUNG pro bowl QB and you all want Orton back to complete the infamous 5 yard pass.

Collins and Griese had career years. It is very possible that Cutler had a career year, but more possible that it was the 1st of many pro bowls in his career.

Do the anti-Cutler people really think he has no talent and would rather see Ortin back at QB? Did you really think he would lead the Bears to the playoffs with the lack of talent on this team? He has NO receivers, OL, TE, RB or defense. He isn't superman!

What do you think P.Manning would do with this team or T.Brady?

Boiler Rick, Is being an asshole something you work at or does it just come naturally? I'll hang up and listen for my ainser.

Don't act like that now. You spent 6 months telling me how I was wrong about Cutler because I simply loved Kyle Orton. It was almost guaranteed in any discussion I had. Now, you've suddenly figured out that at least at this point in his career he does have some serious flaws which may never be fixed. If I'm being an asshole for giving you back a little bit of what you constantly said for months then so be it but just remember that if you are going to dish it out you better be willing to take it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

BS.

You'll still be pointing out his flaws, bitching about interceptions even when he is hoisting the Halas Trophy and/or the Lombardi Trophy. You and IB can never be wrong, as far as you know.

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The Bears would be a better team this year with Orton + 1st round pick + 3rd round pick. QB play equal to what Orton did last year would have this team still competing for the playoffs. Green Bay and SF were winnable games if the QB doesn't throw 4+ picks.

Matt Forte isn't performing well this year but he didn't forget how to play football. The WR core is significantly better this year than last year. Do you not get that? Hester + 1 more year, Knox, Bennett is better than Hester, Booker, Davis. The same is true for the TE. The OL is worse no doubt but it wasn't amazing last year either.

Manning would have them in the playoffs. There is no reason to think otherwise. He has a track record. Brady still seems off from his surgery to me but he'd still have them in a better position.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cutler hasnt made it as a bear. If youre asking when the last time the bears got a qb who had been to the pro bowl prior to being on the bears then

Kordell Stewart
Chris Chandler
Brian Griese

Theyre part of the exclusive club along with

Trent Dilfer
Mike Vick
Jim Everett
Jake Delhomme
Chad Pennington

B Rick made a thread saying it was a questionable trade like 2 days after it was made.

Now that his concerns are proven valid he's an asshole?

Sounds like Sour Bananas to me

Frank,
I was one of the few people who was skeptical of this trade from day one. As of today, it looks like I was correct in that. Many people who were in love with the trade are now seeing that it wasn't the slam dunk many believed. It's funny to me that you still seem to think that I simply dislike Jay Cutler when I've been pretty spot on with my criticism of him even before the season started.

I'll even give you my criteria for him next year to "prove me wrong".
1) Over 25 touchdowns, near a 2 to 1 td/int ratio, over 3,500 yards
or
2) Win the Super Bowl with any statistics

Go take a look at how many qb's will likely satisify condition #1 this year. I'm not exactly setting the bar at a really high level. That would put him on the fringe of top 5 NFL qb.

Do you honestly think that I enjoy the fact that this season is a waste and the future is bleak with draft picks? Why? Because I wish we had Kyle Orton still who is in a better spot in Denver and succeeding there? Where is the logic in that? There is nothing more that I would like than to have seen the Bears, Saints, and Broncos all go undefeated this year(in that order). My favorite team, my favorite player, and a player I root for would all be doing well.

Go read the posts in this thread by Nas and Spaulding and tell me that me and IB are the only ones who see this. You will one day too. If Jay Cutler becomes a top flight NFL QB rub it in my face but when he's playing terribly don't criticize me for saying he's playing terribly. That's just dumb.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Your posts sure seem like it. Sure seems like you enjoy proving people wrong about Cutler...after a whole 11 games.

Though maybe Spaulding is right, and you hate this season but just like being an asshole.

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