You basically just made a case that Cutler was overrated because of having Brandon Marshall even though your numbers projections don't really fit with the reality of last year when he actually had Brandon Marshall. This is probably the worst point you could have made. Think about how bad Jay Cutler would have been in Denver without him if he's worth that much production! Oh wait, maybe we do know.

I guess we can simply hope that the Bears are able to outbid teams like Dallas and Washington for the services of Brandon Marshall in order to make this trade successful.

For years, the problem was considered to be Rex or Kyle. Now, we get a guy who performs worse than either of them did for a full season and it's not his fault because he "made a pro bowl". Do you guys not see the logical inconsistency in this thinking? Brian Griese went to a pro bowl in Denver! Kerry Collins went to a pro bowl last year! He's done in Tennessee.

Let's be completely honest here. Cutler was somewhere between the 8th to 12th best QB in the league last year. Now, he looks like he's more in the 15th to 20th best in the league. It will be a struggle to get Jay Cutler to be mentioned with players like Eli Manning and Tony Romo. I guess we'll see. He certainly has the potential to do it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Jason Campbell is outperforming Cutler! Are you saying that Washington is that much better?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Exactly, and I would say "might have done better"

I understand that Cutler has had a pretty woeful season to date, but I would be hard pressed to believe for a minute that Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (or Bret Farve, or Philip Rivers, etc etc) would have this team playoff bound. There are a number of problems on both sides of the ball. They might not have 7 losses already with Manning or Farve at the helm, but I doubt they would be leading them into the playoffs. This team is plenty bad with or without an elite QB.

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Any of the top 5 QB's would have beaten Green Bay and San Fransisco and would have been good enough to match Cutler's production in the good games he had.

Therefore, we are looking at 6-5 at a minimum which puts you in the playoff hunt.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I love how you can be so certain of something that has not fucking happened.

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I love how you don't think that Peyton Manning would have this team playoff bound or couldn't have beaten Green Bay or San Fransisco. Have you followed his career at all? Regardless of what is around him he has made his team a 10+ win team almost always.

The San Fransisco game is a no brainer for the top 5 QB's. Any decent QB who could avoid throwing so many ints probably does. Cutler was really bad in the Green Bay game too. Even a slightly better performance probably results in a win. No doubt that Manning and Brees would have won both. Brady seems a little off this year but I think he's good enough too. The way Favre is playing this year I am sure he would have too. NY Jets Favre probably wouldn't though. Rivers is really good too.

You underestimate just how much of a negative impact he had on those two games.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No I don't, he basically lost both games. But I suppose you just somehow "know" that Peyton Manning would not have thrown 4 or 5 INTs against the 49ers. Sure its not very likely, but entirely possible.

Rick you want to blame almost everything on Cutler. Yes, he should be better. But you pretty much dismiss how bad this Oline and WRs have been. Thats flat out stupid.

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Fine. It is 99.99% likely that Peyton Manning outperforms Jay Cutler in that SF game? Is that better?

I think that Angelo, Lovie, and Turner should all be fired.


The offensive line is not good. I have said that multiple times. They are bad.

However, please explain this to me.
2008 Bears:
Hester
Rashied Davis
Marty Booker
2009 Bears:
Hester + another year of experience.
Knox
Bennett

Do you not think that the 2008 WR core is much worse than the 2009 one? To me, it's not even close. Hester is better and the 2nd and 3rd WR's are significantly better than they were a year ago.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You aren't fooling me Nas. You are just being disagreeable now.

There is no way you believe this is the worst offense they've had since 2003.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not sure about that one Rick. Definitely better than Orton's rookie year and still could be better than a couple of Grossmans years

this may be of interest regarding the shitty bears' offense:

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2009/1 ... tistically

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Think he deserves to make the pro bowl this year too?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why is that funny? Nas is making you look silly here.

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Did you miss this first post for him here?

I don't think I'm the one who looks silly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So I annoy him, what do I care? He's running circles around you with the Cutler stuff.

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At what point did this go from debating the Cutler trade to comparing Cutler's performances to hypothetical performances from the greatest quarterback of all-time?

Talk about running off the rails.

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Did anyone actually compare Cutler favorably to Manning? Or was that Rick's way of telling us how bad of a QB Cutler is?

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Do I need to now explain what the word "contrarian" means too?

He's being contrarian to me and Irish Boy in this thread. When he says that he has to be a contrarian and then agrees with you then you know he's not talking about you?

Nas specifically stated that he was going to take an opposite stance to people he normally disagrees with but isn't much lately(me and FavreFan) and he then went on to create an argument against me. Did you really think he was talking about you while agreeing with you? That's hilarious.

And no, he's not running circles around me with the Cutler stuff. Then again, given how you struggled with the concept of prediction vs. expectation I can understand why you may have come to that conclusion.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The whole point of this thread is this;

Its too early to say if the trade was good or bad
Cutler needs to play better, as does his supporting cast on both offense and defense
You think your shit smells like candy and flowers

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So you are telling me that Knox is not significantly better than Davis/Lloyd?

I don't care how much experience Marty Booker has. Orlando Pace has more experience than anyone on the team. Does that make him better?


Manning was brought up because Frank C. doesn't think Manning would have been able to make this team a playoff contender.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I love the Manning comparison. Would Peyton Manning do better with this team? I would imagine so.... but why is it surprising that arguably the greatest quarterback of all time with 12 years experience would outperform a quarterback in his 4th year in the league? Manning guided the Colts to a 6-10 record and threw 23 INTs in his 4th year. I bet this year's version of Peyton Manning would've been able to get the 2001 Colts to the playoffs.

Is Cutler having a good season? Hell no, he's awful... but I'm not blinded to the fact that the rest of the team sucks too. It's all bad. But the question is would I rather have Cutler for the next few years or Orton + the traded draft picks for the next few years. As bad as this year is, I'd rather have Cutler.

This thread is a gift that just keeps on giving.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Do you think there were threads on the Indianapolis Sports Fan Message Board asking if anyone regrets drafting Manning or that he is not a franchise QB??

Oddly enough, the next year Manning got a new coaching staff and Edgerrin James came back and they went 10-6. But I'm sure people were pining for Captain Comeback Jim Harbaugh's game management skills in 2001.

If you guys are making the point that if Jay Cutler becomes Peyton Manning then I'll be wrong then I'll agree. I'll also be ecstatic to be wrong about it.

Rex Grossman threw 20 interceptions in his fourth year, went to the Super Bowl, and was benched 8 games into the next season.

Which do you think is more likely to happen? Jay Cutler becomes Peyton Manning or Rex Grossman?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree! Cutler is likely to become better than Peyton Manning!

I hope we draft a QB in the 6th round next year. He's likely to become the next Tom Brady!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm saying that Peyton Manning this year is better than Peyton Manning in his 4th year and Cutler this year AND that I'd rather have Cutler than Orton and the draft picks. That's pretty much it.

How many of the 22 Qbs with higher ratings is Cutler outplaying?

Or has the argument completely shifted from "He's not that bad" to "Its too early to judge the trade"?

Nas is winning this thread on a reverse

Nas won the thread when he went all contrarian by actually agreeing with Frank on an issue.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!