they don't have diabeetus. so it's an unfair comparison.

Long term? Absolutely.

I don't really care that Cutler may be better than retired players in 5 years. Besides Warner and Favre, I think that all those players will be around at least 3 more years and while they may have declining skills they are currently light years ahead of Cutler as he is playing this year.

I think Cutlers "youth" is getting overrated here. Most 26 year olds who had a year like this would be replaced or would at least have competition brought in through the draft or a free agent. Most of that list is around Cutlers age and if you made the same list 5 years ago you'd see many 25-30 year old qbs who completely dropped off the list. For example, in 2004, Jake Plummer was a future star and Culpepper was a 27 year old dominating the league.

That's why I find it tough to factor in the 2015 level of play of any qb's in that list.

Cutler has great potential but all the potential in the world won't matter if his performance next year is similar to this years.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In 2004 Jake Plummer was 30 years old and had established himself as mediocre over his previous 7 years in the league.

I dont think that comparison works. Culpepper does...but that just speaks to the "easy come, easy go" nature of the NFL

That's true.

However, from 2003-2006 in Denver, Jake the Snake was 60 touchdowns and 34 ints and people thought he had revived his career after being wasted in Arizona.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Two more picks today. Every game he plays I just shake my head in amazement at how inept the Bears management is.

I bet Denver fans and the Denver organ-i-zation are just laughing their asses of at us. I can't believe Cutler is this mediocre.

I still think Terry Boers is on to something when he said Cutler may never see the playoffs as a Bear.

_________________
RFDC thinks I'm retarded.

They should be laughing at the orgain-i-zation as a whole, not just Jay Cutler. Clearly he's been mediocre at best, but there are bigger and more glaring holes. If Angelo and/or Lovie are still around, he won't see the playoffs as a Bear.

_________________

+1

_________________
RFDC thinks I'm retarded.

I am watching the final word on fox. Who the fuck is Cutler throwing to with these int's?

_________________
RFDC thinks I'm retarded.

Bumpkin, I gotta hand it to you, you are going that extra mile to really make us believe you really aren't watching the games.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

_________________
RFDC thinks I'm retarded.

He iskilling me but I think there is areceiver problem too. This is shit a good oc would fix.

You guys are indirectly making a case against the Cutler trade, especially Frank and his thought that the Bears won't ever make the playoffs with Cutler here.

It's only magnified by the fact that Cutler has been unable to match Orton's average production from last year.

2010 will be a clean slate and 2009 will be a distant memory by then but eventually there comes a point where Cutlers play needs to hide the teams weaknesses instead of magnifying them.

The worst nightmare for this organization is the realization that Jay Cutler may have been overrated because of the insane talent that is Brandon Marshall who has overcome a slow start due to suspension in order to have potentially a career year without Cutler.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rick, don't put words into my mouth.

It was a Boers thought, and I said that if Lovie and/or Angelo stay around as long as Cutler that its possible he won't see the playoffs. Thats an indictment of the highers ups, not Jay Cutler.

Again, Cutler this year = not very good. But between bad play calling, flase starts, dumb challenges, holding penalties, Grandpa Pace, Forte, etc etc etc he has had a LOT of help making this offense look bad.

_________________

After Cutler's 1st tuddy pass to Knox, Billick said 'there are only a handful of QB's in this league that can make that throw'. That's why you make that trade a million out of a million times. It's painfully obvious this coaching staff has absolutely no idea how to use Cutler so they all have to be fired. The powers that be have had a year to evaluate Cutler and bring in a coaching staff that will be able to get the most out of his immense talent. I hope they do the right thing after this miserable season.

I may have slightly misquoted you but you do believe there is a possibility that Cutler never sees the playoffs as a Bear. I'm not 100% sure that Jerry and Lovie both go.

Would you trade for Jamarcus Russell right now? He's supposedly was once considered one of the most "talented" QB's in the league too. Definitely a stronger arm than all but a handful of QB's in this league. Let's be honest here. One of the reasons that Cutler looks so good on some passes is because he doesn't have the control of most other QB's. Most QB's in the league aren't going to try some of those passes. They sometimes work. They work a lot better with Brandon Marshall. More times than not though, they end up with an interception or a near interception. That's the tough thing about talking about how talented Cutler is and how he makes throws others can't. He also makes throws that most other QB's don't try.
Well, I hope that we hire this magic coach that can solve the problem that Cutler has ALWAYS had. Even before Cutler and Turner and Lovie got together for the first time people were concerned about the same things.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think Lovie sees the playoffs again. Angelo might, but he'd need to luck out with some guys having career years or an easy schedule. I don't think that has much if anything to do with Jay Cutler. They haven't given Cutler a whole lot to work with and I don't expect them to. It also seems the one weapon Cutler might have (Devin A) was on the bench until an injury to Devin H.

_________________

No. The Bears already have a backup QB.

Jesus Christ on the cross ... how is this still a mystery to some people?

Pick ANY quarterback from ANY team at ANY time in history and put him on THIS Bears team ... are you suggesting that this team would be materially better to the point that they would magically not suck at every offensive position? Really?

Cutler's condition is not part of the disease; it's the end result of the fact that the ENTIRE OFFENSE, top to bottom, is INEPT. Not one lineman, not one receiver, (apparently) not one tight end, and (apparently again) not one running back is a starter on any legitimate wildcard team, let alone the proper teams that have a reasonable chance to reach the Super Bowl.

This is like a discussion about a cancer patient who as a result suffers from nasuea and a headache wherein all the "doctors" are discussing how to deal with the hausea and headache rather than how to deal with the underlying issue, the cancer. It's just that dumb; it's worse than meatball fire-and-passion talk.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Don Tiny,
I would expect that many QB's could have put up numbers similar to what Orton did last year. The offensive line is statistically near the league average. The WR's are better than last year.

Jason Campbell, who is probably not going to be on the Redskins next year, and is playing on a worse team is outplaying Cutler.

Alex Smith on a per game basis is doing the same.

While the offensive line did get worse in the off-season, this team is not that much different than the 2008 team that was a playoff contender.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Then you take Alex Smith and Jason Campbell for the long run. I'll take Jay Cutler.

"not much different than 2008"
Sure, except for 60% of the Oline and 2 new starting WRs.

_________________

That isn't what I was talking about. Don Tiny believes that no QB could be playing at a league average level. In my opinion, we have two similar teams with QB's struggling to keep their jobs who are performing much better.

If Alex Smith and Jason Campbell can do that, I'm pretty sure any top 5 NFL QB this year could have the Bears in the playoff hunt.

I'm not saying Peyton Manning or Drew Brees would have us winning the Super Bowl this year but it's an overreaction to think either of those QB's wouldn't have this team performing at a much higher level.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I would dispute this. IMO the Redskins are better across the board, talent-wise. That Jason Campbell will likely not be on the 'Skins next year says more about the ruddlerless nature, poor coaching and multiple coaching changes in/of that organization.

Campbell's had what 3-4 OCs in the four years he's been there? Then consider that the longest one (Zorn) is an idiot and with the latest coming on board mid-season after being out of football for years (but oddly enough, getting results).

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

This is really simplistic of me but here goes.
Washington: 70 qb hits, 36 sacks.
Chicago: 64 qb hits, 29 sacks.

WR's:
Washington: Santana Moss, Randle El, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly
Chicago: Hester, Knox, Bennett, Aramashado(?)

If anything, it's equal.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're saying Moss, Randle El are comparable to hester and Knox?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Moss and Randle El had better careers but at this point I don't think the difference is huge between them especially when you add in Devin Thomas vs. Earl Bennett I think it's pretty close between them.

I probably am underrating Santana Moss though.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It would seem to be a possibility.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

the same people keep repeating the same things. Cutler clearly isnt good enough to make players around him better, but if he gets good talent around him, he will be good

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

orton may not have had as many INT's as cutler this year but this team would not be better. i really don't think it would matter. the whole team is bad. frank's right. you can look at cutler at certain situations and yeah he takes the blame, but a lot of that comes from the fact that the kid can't count on ANYONE in that offense to make a play.

so basically this is the worst team in nfl history without cutler? I dont believe you. Its a bad team with an average qb that now has a 4 year history of playing at the level of his cast

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul