Yeah, that might be it.

He's also part of the "not all that good when he returned from retirement" category.

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Fire Phil Emery

he didnt get canned from the eagles.

Wikipedia says you are right. No sale on Vermeil, then.

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Fire Phil Emery

Right. I thought this would have been the obvious best example to IB's question

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I meant for only those coaches that have had success in the past. Belicheck didn't have any success in Cleveland.

If we open the search to those coaches that had mostly failed, Bellicheck and Coughlin get added, but the list of failure retreads is going to be a LOT longer. Probably too numerous to enumerate.

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Fire Phil Emery

Billick has Ozzie Newsome completely running the personell part. Belichick and Scott Pioli were a tandem making those decisions together.

IB - I get your point on Holmgren. I think hes always been very overrated. But why would Seattle fans hate him? He's the only coach in the history of their franchise that had measurable success. Before him they were completely irrelevant, and they are pretty terrible this year(not that this one year means a whole lot in terms of sample size.)

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I wouldnt call Coughlin a complete failure in Jacksonville.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They hate him for almost exactly the same reasons that Bears fans hate Lovie, except for the fire and passion stuff. I mean, it's almost a one for one comparison. That's why I'm so amused by any suggestions that Holmgren be brought in to replace Smith; people will be pulling out their hair by week 3.

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Fire Phil Emery

Yeah I can see that. At least the Bears had some past success in their franchise though, although few and far between the past two decades.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So FF and Boiler Rick, what is your opinion on this? Should the Bears give a coach complete control?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

No, but he mostly did. I mean, if Lovie Smith is a failure, Coughlin in Jacksonville would be even more so, becuase the one dominant year they had they didn't even make the Super Bowl. It wasn't a disaster, but it wasn't a great success either, especially after that 14-2 season (7-6, 6-10, 6-10, fired).

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

Vermeil from the Rams to the Chiefs qualifies

Of course not. I lived through the Mike Sherman era in GB. I dont even wish that on Bears fans.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Vermeil stepped down, he was not canned.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I was assuming that suggestion was more brought up for the Eagles to the Rams connection.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Who knew we had a Dick Vermeil emoticon.

_________________

No. I think they need to have a strong working relationship where they share a philosophy. That's my problem with this whole thing.

If you fire Lovie, you have to fire Jerry. Start fresh and build your whole organizational structure. If you fire Jerry, you have to fire Lovie.

If you believe what you read about NFL coaches, they work 90+ hour weeks. It's one of the few professions harder than painting. That basically means that nearly all of your non-sleeping time is spent working on being a head coach. How do you have time to follow the league and other players and talk with other GM's?

On time alone, I don't think it works. Do you really want a half coach/half GM? Otherwise, you get a part-time GM which isn't a recipe for success in my opinion.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

To be fair Scott Pioli the last 3-4 years was basically a part time GM.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

/