Rick, the first mistake is judging this trade off of just one year. Its a long term deal, so passing any sort of judgement after not even one full season yet is moronic.

If this time next year, he's up over 20 INTs again, my tune will change.

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Since the Broncos traded away the pick they received from the Bear, this deal is complete. What is the rundown of players they acquired in the deal?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I believe the Broncos still have the likely top ten pick of the Bears for next year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I heard Mel Kiper Jr. say this morning that "if Jay Cutler had Tim Tebow's intangibles, he'd be in the Hall of Fame".

I regret the trade solely for me having to ever hear that comment at all.

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You know me like that.

Correct. The Broncos traded their first rd pick. They still have the Bears pick

Neither have the Bears.

The top ten pick is incredibly valuable because this is looking like one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. Very few players are staying in college with the unknown future of the rookie pay scale.

My guess is that Orton and the Broncos come to a mutually beneficial extension and McDaniels does his best to fix some of Orton's problems. Denver will look really bad if they lose Cutler and then lose Orton who has been at least above average. They probably will draft a QB too and McDaniels can start to groom him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

ortons 89 rating and single-digit picks don't count as anything special, but johnny knox does?

who did the broncos trade their 1st round pick for

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't care if the Broncos drafted 3 future hall of famers with the picks they got. I won't EVER REGRET THE TRADE!!!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

"Kyle Orton has been above average!"
"Kyle Orton just wins games!"

I don't think average or winning accurately describes a 2-6 stretch.

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I predict that in 3 years no one even remembers that Knox was the person they took with the 5th round pick. He burst on the scene the first two games and looked like a steal but besides one game he's been pretty much a non-factor. I'd be shocked if he's seeing the field as a starter next year without injury. Hester, Bennett, and whoever they get in free agency will get more chances.

However, I welcome anyone to tell me how wrong I am about the ability of Knox.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

For the record Frank answer this question.

Is the record of a QB the best way to judge his performance?

Answer this question and I'll respond accordingly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Traded their 2010 for the Seahawks 2009 2nd rd pick....Time value I guess.

Anyways they took Alphonso Smith. He's a corner that hasnt played much.

But they had two first rd picks last year.

So going into the 2009 draft they had 4 first rd picks in the next two drafts...pretty sweet



This puzzles me though is a First Rd pick this year = to a 2nd next year?
guess so

I agree. It's a miracle he made Cutler look like a pro bowl QB.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I predict in 3 years the Broncos picks are all busts and Cutler remains the best player in the trade.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

nice try rick. Frank wants no part of comparing career records of the two. The meatball proves as much by giving him absolutely no credit for the 6-0 start and all the blame for the 2-6 stretch.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He derserves some credit for 6-0, not all. He deserves zero credit for that Cinci game however. He also deserves some blame 2-6, not all.

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Seems counterintuitive. In a deep draft, a high draft pick would seem less valuable as teams could get a similar talent at a later spot and pay him less money.

It seems like every year teams are desperate to get out of the top ten but have trouble finding a trading partner.

Does anybody know if this uncapped business has any affect on rookie contracts?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Not really counterintuitive. Rounds 3 and beyond won't be affected as much by the new salary cap structure. It's not like 4th round picks get huge money anyways so it's unlikely that they'll all be seeing a big drop. The first round money will change greatly when the dust settles. The same may be true of the second round. I think we'll see an immediate impact player available through the first 10 picks of the draft if not even further.

This also means that losing the second round pick hurts a lot too. There will be picks that would normally be late first round picks going into the second round.

All rounds will be better but as the draft goes on you start to see decreasing value as the players available approach the average. Then we have to count on Jerry Angelo being good enough at drafting to find those steals in the middle rounds. Hopefully he drafts a player that doesn't need a red shirt year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

"remains", or "becomes"?

He was the best player in the trade. He is the best player in the trade. He will remain the best player in the trade.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

good enough for me.

how do you figure? he did ok overall in that game. sure the last play had some luck involved, but he didnt cost the team with turnovers and interceptions.

He didn't win it either. A lucky bounce did.

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no, but to say he gets "zero credit" is ridiculous. some days you take what you can get, and you fight to keep your team close, and try not to fuck up. he did that. he gets credit for keeping his team in the game. i suppose it would have been "cooler" to be a "gunslinger" and try to force the ball in there and throw a few picks like a "franchise" quarterback.

Take a look at that duck he threw on that play in Cinci. Zero credit.

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ok frank. solid argument.

Just buoying up Frank a little, I believe Cutler had under 100 yards passing on the day prior to that miracle pass.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I wrote "seems" because I didn't want to be argumentative. I momentarily forgot who I was responding to.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I understand. Who would expect a response to someone when you make a response to a post they've made? That is so rare on this message board.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!