I got news for you,26 fucking INT's is also a problem!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

They dont have a great QB, but they have an average one. Many teams are in the same position

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Average to below average. And how does his contract work now?

I dont think he's below average. Well, unless he regresses. He was really bad today, but throughout the season he's been pretty good, even in the losses. I dont know how his contract works right now. I think he's a FA. Denver pretty much has to bring him back unless there is a similarly skilled QB on the market. Simms is dreadful

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

In two years, when we reflect on the Cutler deal, the Bears will be huge winners.

Cutler and Knox will still be big time contributors to the Bears, and they will make the playoffs.

Orton won't be on the Broncos.
The Broncos still won't make the playoffs.
and the guys they drafted will be washout busts.

i think a lot of people want orton to suck so they can feel better about this trade. he isnt great, he isnt horrible. he was an average qb this year. im sure that the broncos got just about everything they thought they could from him this year. the thing that will make or break this trade for the broncos is how the draft choices pan out, and the thing that makes it a bad trade for the bears is how many holes they have to fill with no high-round draft choices. the bears thought they were a lot closer than they really were. the broncos didn't make the trade to get kyle orton. they took him because he is ok, and for the draft picks. average qb plus WELL USED draft choices > slightly above average qb.

the bears uncovered some young players that could be pretty good. if i were a bears fan id feel pretty good about the last couple of games going into the off-season, but they are 2-3 years away i think from being a team that could really seriously challenge. this truly is a trade where you just wont know for a number of years if it was worth it. draft choices are a valuable commodity.

Oooh...I dont know about Knox. He's not an everyday starting WR. I see him as a KR & PR & occasional WR. Right now the WR depth chart looks like this:

1. DA
2. Hester
3. Bennett

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Did their QB throw 26 intercetptions?

It is hilarious people celebrating this trade because the Broncos missed the playoffs.

Doesnt take away any of Cutlers 9 or 10 terrible games this year. Every time he threw a game losing pick this year...the Broncos pick got better.

The fact is Orton still had a better year than Cutler and that was supposed to be the weak point of the trade for Denver.

I understand the frustration. I was all about the Cutler trade, but you guys seem to be looking for any tiny thing to go in favor of the trade and celebrate it like its HUGE.

If Jay Cutler doesnt win Several playoff games for the Bears, the Broncos will most likely have won the trade.


But he did Torch the Lions yesterday!

Similiar to how Brady Quinn did earlier this year

Now that the season is completed, through year 1, the Broncos totally dominated this trade. It's not really even close. Knox has been exposed. He's a younger version of Rashied Davis. I'll be very surprised if he's one of the top 4 WR's on the team next year. Check out his gamelogs. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=12678 After the first two games, he basically didn't exist outside of one game. When Jay Cutler was lighting the league on fire in the last two games of the season he didn't even have a catch. It wouldn't shock me if Knox is gone after next season.

Kyle Orton played significantly better than Cutler this year. Jay Cutler had a great last two games and it gave him an advantage in touchdowns but that's about it. Even total yards, which clearly Cutler was supposed to win easily, was less. He also did it with less attempts. He had a "bad" last game. Those interceptions were big mistakes. However, this was the second game of the season where Orton had more interceptions than picks. There is not a single person that wouldn't take Orton's season over Cutlers. Not a question. I know we have all the built in excuses about WR's, offensive lineman, coaching, and running game. If I had said before the season started that Orton would have more yards, y/a, qb rating, and have a much better touchdown/interception ratio I would have been laughed at. The biggest bonus of them all was that Orton proved to be at least a suitable replacement for Cutler and in some areas was actually an improvement. They also won't have to pay Orton as much. I think people underestimate this part of the trade. Jay Cutler is paid and will be paid significantly more. If he doesn't play significantly better then he'll be an anchor on the team. He has to be good enough to make up for the millions of dollars that the Bears can't pay in free agency.

Now we get to the draft picks. This is where the trade was really to be judged. The Bears have a ton of faults. They would have had a chance to significantly improve 3 positions. This is incredibly valuable and this is how the good franchises build teams. The Raiders make trades, the Redskins overpay in free agency, the Colts and Pats(outside of stealing Randy Moss) and Steelers build through the draft. When you add in the Gaines Adams trade you have lost 4 out of 6 of the players that you build your team on for the past 2 years. This is a huge advantage for the Broncos.

So the Broncos clearly won year 1. It shouldn't even be an argument.

It's now time for a fresh start and some retooling of the coaching staff and maybe the Bears will get lucky in free agency because the draft is pretty worthless this year. Jay Cutler will likely have a better season next year. He almost has to. However, the Bears probably won't be a playoff team. As time goes on, unless Cutler truly becomes an elite QB we'll continue to see the Bears being a bad to mediocre team. Jay Cutler was traded for a ton of draft picks and and a 27 year old league average QB. He has to provide value greater than all of those in order for this trade to be a success. Otherwise, I will "regret the Cutler trade". So will you. Just having Jay Cutler isn't a reason to celebrate. Having a top 5 QB would be. We'll see if that happens. I have my doubts that he will ever be an elite QB. I hope I'm wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

you're full of shit. your highlight in life is this thread.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Yeah Cutler had a bad season but now you're already counting out Knox? Christ...I guess he had to win offensive ROY to make next year's roster.

I'm not saying the guy is an all pro, but lets give him more than his rookie year before we throw him out with the trash, Rick.

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You got it. I love rooting against the Bears! I hope the Bears lose every game!
Look at his gamelogs. After week 2 he was almost non-existent. You could pull a guy off the practice squad who could produce those numbers outside of the Green Bay game.
I'll be shocked if he's in the starting lineup next year. Hester and Bennett for sure are much better WR's. Aromashodu looks to be a better prospect and Cutler does really seem to like him. Like Knox though, we'll have to see more on him. They better get someone in free agency even though I doubt it will be a big name.

So assuming they get a free agent WR in the off-season, there are at least 3 WR's on the team that are clearly better than Knox. Then it's a battle between Aromashodu, Iglesias, and Knox. With how much Cutler likes Aromashodu and the reports that before his injury he would have been the guy I'll give him the inside track. So Knox will be 5th on the depth chart next year. That's my prediction. He's fourth on the depth chart if the Bears fail in free agency.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, it sure looks that way. If Cutler's bad, he can continue to make the "I told you so" posts like he has been.

If he is good, he can make the "Yes, Go Bears" posts.

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Don't be lazy and go to this.
Speaking of making a lazy argument.

If Cutler is bad, I will continue to say he is bad. If he's even average, I'll continue to say that the trade has not been a benefit to the Bears as a whole.

If Cutler is really good, I'll give him all the credit in the world. Quote this when he does it. If Jay Cutler has one of the top 8 qb ratings in the league next year I'll be wrong about the trade. When he starts winning games for the Bears, I will give him all the credit he would deserve just like he deserves blame for at least 3 losses this year.

If Cutler has a good season next year and the Bears make the playoffs do you really think I'm simply going to say "Yes, Go Bears!". No, I'm going to say "Jay Cutler is finally playing like a franchise QB. Jay Cutler is a player you can be confident in when you build your franchise around him. I'm glad the Bears made the trade!".

If Cutler throws another 20 interceptions next year I'll be just as critical. The difference is that all but the most optimistic Bears fans will finally realize that all the "talent" in the world doesn't make a difference if you play losing football.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Exactly, its win win for you just like I said. Its either the 'I told you so' or 'go bears' posts. They are equally as condescending.

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I just told you exactly what I want to see in order to call myself wrong.

Of course I'll be happy if the Bears are good. Would you prefer if I rooted against the Bears so I could say "I told you so"? What kind of logic is that?

I would have looked like a complete moron this year if Jay Cutler was better this year than he was last year in Denver. Most people thought he would be at least as good. I'll look stupid next year if he is good. You've already shown that you'll say anything dumb you can in order to throw something in my face. How many "Another loss for Orton!" posts have you made? Imagine what you would do if you actually had a valid point to make.

I'll be very happy next year if Cutler is a pro bowler. Why wouldn't I be?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In an uncapped year wouldn't it be better not to have a 1st round pick? Last season's #10 pick (Michael Crabtree) signed a $17M guaranteed contract. I would rather spend that $17M on a free agent who has a history in the league over a player I hope can play football.

No it wasn't. Here are my responses.
Why would I? Orton had a pretty good season and I believe he will get better for next year.

No. They got a much less valuable pick for the third round pick. If anything, they lost 2.5 picks according to the draft pick value chart.

That is somewhat true but I doubt it ends up being true over the length of the deal especially when Cutler is getting $10 million a year.
Haven't people been complaining about our WR's all year, and Knox is no better than the third best WR on the team and maybe the fourth best with the emergence of Aromashadu?
The more strength he adds, the slower he will get. He's simply a fast guy. He's not a very good true WR. I'd be shocked if Knox is in the starting lineup next year without multiple injuries or a failure in free agency.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

this is the thread that just keeps giving...

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They will also come out ahead in talent. Providing they have someone other than Jerry Angelo sign the free agent(s).

You wouldn't want Michael Crabtree? His contract is 6 years and 32 million. With incentives, it can go up to $40.

For comparison, Lee Evans gets 9.25 million a year for four years with 18.25 million guaranteed. I'd rather have Crabtree for 6 years at 32 million rather than Evans for 4 years at 37.25 million.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hindsight is 20/20, Rick. Darius Heyward-Bey signed a $23.5M guarateed contract. Do you want him??

You specifically mentioned Crabtree. What is this hindsight you speak of?

The Heyward-Bey pick was also laughed at league-wide and used as a reason to laugh at the worst run organization in the NFL. Of course I wouldn't want him and I wouldn't have wanted him then. If anything, they should have taken Maclin if they didn't want Crabtree. That isn't hindsight either. I really wanted Maclin before the Bears lost the first round pick.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I mentioned Crabtree because he was the 10th pick in last years draft and the Bears would have the 10th pick in this years draft if they didn't make the Cutler trade. The draft pick is a crap shoot while a free agent should be a safer move because he has a history in the league. To make a long story short I think you're overvaluing the draft pick in an uncapped season.

Hester will be the starter next year. So will Devin A according to you. That leaves Knox to beat out Earl Bennett. I don't think he will. Add in a free agent WR because they HAVE to get someone and you've got Knox no better than the 4th WR on the team and the 5th if he can't beat out Bennett who was much better this year.

Maybe Knox will improve significantly but right now it's hard to imagine any scenario where he is a top 3 WR on this team.
That may be true. That's why he needs to be really good though and a clear upgrade over that QB or your team is downgraded. 3 draft picks can improve three positions. Hopefully Cutler outperforms "average QB" by a large enough margin to warrant that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess it would help if Knox wasn't hurt the last two games Boilermaker! LOL...

How do Knox's year end numbers stack up against 'the great' Eddie Royal's ???

I don't think Knox is 'the answer' by any means - but he's part of the solution at WR for the Bears.

An improved O-Line, a playmaking physical WR and an O-Coordinator - and Cutler will be fine....

No team won this trade yet - it's too early to call, as both teams failed to make the playoffs. ..and the draft picks for both teams need more time to be evaluated. Also, let's see how Orton is doing in a couple of years, and on which team.

Agree!

Bennett and DA will be the starters as things stand now for next year.

Knox, Hester and Inglesias will be the reserve WRs.

'Rashidi' Davis will be squeegee-in car windows down at Lake and State.

He wasn't exactly lighting opposing defenses on fire for the 12 games before he got injured.

He won't, and shouldn't be a starter next year. If the Bears don't have 3 WR's better than him next year then they failed. They definitely have two right now.

I agree. I never said the final determination had been made.

Kyle Orton is a fairly meaningless part of the trade. This may change if he improves for next year and becomes a top ten QB. The draft picks are still what matters. Even if the Broncos cut Orton today they could still win the trade. The key is that Cutler becomes a significant upgrade over what they could have had whether it was someone like Kyle Orton or a free agent veteran QB or a rookie with the 10th or 18th pick.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Breaking down Cutler's year statistically is pretty frustrating.

In his 4 horrible games that he had 3 or more INTs, he had:
54% comp, 2 TDs, 15 INTs and 929 yards

In his other 12 games, he had:
63% comp, 25 TDs, 11 INTs and 2737 yards

He's played well against good teams, bad against good teams, well against bad teams and poorly against bad teams. No real patterns other than all the bad games were on the road. The faults he had while playing with Denver are the same faults he had this year...bad decisions. This is pretty much the guy we expected to get. I hoped for less errors, obviously, but as bad as he was this year, I'm comfortable with him as the Bears quarterback for the next few years as he "matures". It’s with the rest of the team that I don’t feel as confident.

Except the part in BOLD is basically proven as not true. Over the past decade, none of the consistently good teams use that philosophy. The Raiders and Ravens, who are consistently bad, use that philosophy.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul