AWESOME......big article on Alex Rios today...Greg Walker saw him swing the bat 5 times in Miami and now he is all better....
It used to be we had to wait until Spring Training for all of these puff piece articles.......now with these Geek Conventions.....the sappy assed articles start in January.

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I've always wondered why people attend these conventions.

Do you believe last year was more indicative of Rios' skills than the previous 8 or so years of his career? It might be a puff piece, but Rios is due for a bounce back at least to the norm with a jump above the norm in HR.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Why does Greg Walker still have a job with the organization?

I'm just wondering if Bob ever gets any enjoyment out of being a Sox fan ever, or if everything is always terrible. And if it isn't always terrible, there's always some aspect that is terrible.

I just want Bob to relax a bit. Worried about him.

sez the sox "fan" of 4 years.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Sez the meatball.

Just to address the actual quote in this article, all he's saying is that he could tell in a handful of swings that Rios' mechanics look pretty good. He's not saying he's gonna have a stellar year, he's simply saying that the guy's swing isn't all jacked up like it was when he arrived last year. It only takes a couple of cuts to be able to notice that.

People are making too much of a big deal of that comment and reading way too much into it.

Be honest, you have absolutely no idea that this is true.

It's a fluff piece. You didn't write it. You have no obligation to defend it.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Are you serious? How many swings do you think it takes for a hitting coach to be able to tell if a player's mechanics are out of sorts? It doesn't take that many. Find a hitting coach and ask them that question. It doesn't even have to be a Major League hitting coach. Yes, I do know that this is true.

And to be honest, I'm not defending the article. If anything, it seems to me that the "five swings" comment was presented in such a way as to appear more significant of a statement than it actually was.

I have a better idea, you do it, as it is part of your job. As much as I like Walker, he is a coach of questionable competency, so start with someone of a little more stature. Give Jaramillo a call. I'd really like to see if this is true as, despite your bravado, I do not believe for a second that you KNOW it to be true.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not wrong. I don't have knee-jerk reactions and I think everything through. When I think the Sox are wrong, and when I think somebody makes a mistake, I will say something. You just choose not to hear it and that isn't my fault. Pay better attention.

And that "maybe they're trying this" thing is a response to the question I get every single night: "why did they _____?" or "how come Ozzie ______ instead of ______?" Don't ask me a question if you are just being rhetorical. You ask me why I think such-and-such happened, I'm going to tell you what I believe they were thinking. If you don't want that answer, don't ask me that f***ing question.

Go back and read my comment, I'm not defending the article. Cowley is a friend of mine, and I think the quote was presented as something it's not. The quote in the article is perfectly clear:

''But to be honest, it took the first five swings in the cage to show me that he had passed the eye test. Mechanically, this is the Alex Rios I saw on tape when he was in Toronto.''

That's all it says. His mechanics look good. This is not a declaration that everything is going to be ok regarding Alex Rios when the games start. It just means they will have less to work on during the offseason.

I do, but apparently that's not good enough for you. Which is why I'm telling you to ask for yourself if you don't believe me. Find a college hitting coach (they'll be more available) or something and ask them. If you think I'm lying to you or don't know what I'm talking about, then go ask somebody else that you do believe.

You just don't like Greg Walker and think he is incapable of determining if a guy's swing is on track or not. I'm telling you that pretty much all hitting coaches are able to tell something like that. That is the easiest part of their job. The rest of it is the tough part.

Because he's good at his job.

People know the article is pure puff...bullshit...
Joe Cowley sure as hell isn't at this "Camp Cora" training base writing this nonsense..DID HE WRITE THIS FROM HIS COUCH??? Everybody under the Sun knew Rios could not hit the SLIDER....but Greg Walker, who half the board wants shitcanned every July, says everything is a OK after 5 swings.....and lackey ass Cowley just runs with this shit.
This is just a typical BULLSHIT feel good lazy assed article that used to be the norm in Spring Training...not before a Convention of Imbeciles.
I guess Spring Training will now feature multiple articles about Kerry Wood.

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Stop acting like this is brain surgery or splitting atoms....Some pitcher might just throw Rios 3 straight sliders and his swing will be back to shit.
I like Greg Walker, but if you want to sell us all this "baseball insider coaching" bullshit, why can't this second coming of Rogers Hornsby, Greg Walker, have these goofs KNOCK IN BASERUNNERS WITH BASE HITS.

Is Rios hitting a PITCHING MACHINE down there?

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WOO LIFE!!!!

+1.

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Spin, spin and more spin.
Cowley isn't in Miami, is he?
Who "tipped" him in the week of Sox Farce to write this puff piece?

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Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Why is the Sox Farm system so damned pathetic that they can't produce a starting pitcher for the last 10 years to be the 5th starter?
Why can't they find somebody in their system to give them an inning or 2 so they don't piss money away on the Dotels and Linebrinks of the world?
Why aren't the Sox DOMINATING this Division?
Why don't we ever see a story by a member of the National Media calling the White Sox a serious Pennant contender in just about ANY Spring?
What is the current full season ticket base?
Do you think it is mere brilliance on the part of Kenny Williams to blame fans for his inability to add players in July when he is the guy that came out last April with Colon and Contreras in his starting rotation?
How does this dumb assed KILLJOY operation expect to excite a fanbase and sell tickets when Williams trades for Teahen and signs Jones and then announces HE HAS NO MORE MONEY TO MAKE ANYMORE MOVES?

And you seem to have no idea why a lifelong Sox Fan might be a tad pissed and a bit skeptical?

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

It's evident your mind is made up and always will be, Bob. You're right. The Sox are out to get you and swindle you out of your hard-earned money. And I'm getting paid a tremendous salary to "spin" everything. Except none of that is true. Except for the you having your mind made up thing.

Chris...none of this is personal.
It seems to me that the White Sox can be run a lot better in the baseball aspect of things.
"Non Tendered" Day may as well have been a tribute to the INCOMPETENT White Sox Farm system and talent development Department...Brian Anderson, Lance Broadway and Jeremy Reed come to mind.
The White Sox won the World Series in 2005 and have managed to piss away that good feeling and assume their SELF CHOSEN role as second banana around here...AGAIN.
THE PROOF OF THE SECOND BANANA ROLE AND THE THIRD RATE OUTLOOK IS THE TICKET PRICING....LOOK WHAT GAMES COST THE MOST....THE CUBS......
I didn't expect you to answer my questions.....I know you are in between the rock and the hard place...
I never said you were making a fortune and I never accused the Sox of swindling....
My mind sure as hell is made up....THE WHITE SOX CAN DO A LOT BETTER IN THE BASEBALL PRODUCT THEY PUT ON THE FIELD EVERY SEASON AND THEY OUGHT TO STOP POOR MOUTHING.
Build a genuine farm system.
Stop the Damned "Catch Lightning in a Bottle" approach.

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Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Now you and I KNOW that statement is pure bullshit Ranger.

You just lost any cred you had with that little gem.

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I think Bob explained his position well Ranger. The white sox have not been great devoloping talent. Kenny Williams has been with the organization a long time in many roles. The devolopment since he's been there has been less than stellar.

In 2005 a series of moves he made all worked out (el duque, Podsednkik, Politte, Hermanson). It was a nice job. But overall he's been average at best. He seems to value activity over prudence. The most recent example is Rios. He did that to block the tigers. That was unneccessary. And now theyre stuck with a terrible contract. Even in Rios best year he's not worth close to what he's being paid.

Bob Loblaw wrote a more detailed version of Kenny's impact. Ill try to find it. It was a good read.

At least the Bears are goofy enough to take out newspaper ads "apologizing" to the fans.
The White Sox WIN a World Series and the Cubs just OWN the town.
The White Sox organization goes back into their pathetic "victim" role and lash out at THEIR CUSTOMERS.
Some of us aren't hanging on the every word of Hawk Harrelson or believing these puff pieces obviously planted in anticipation of the big "fest' or FARCE.
Some of us ACTUALLY want a GOOD baseball team.
Sorry if that offends Chris.

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

That may have been the biggest, most cynical waste of $$$ passed off as Bears' "caring about the fans"

Who cares if the Cubs "just OWN the town"? Really, WTF is the trophy for that???

The WS organization isn't "lashing out" IMO, just calling a spade a spade. 24K for a Friday game v. the Dodgers(or Rays, or Blue Jays), a limited season ticket base, only average to high average TV ratings, we don't exactly comprise a fanbase that is top tier in size & financial muscle. We are all too often(as alleged), one fanbase ready to (just)bitch and moan like all stars.

No one reasonably believes most "real " Sox fans hang on puff pieces, that's always been one of the few Sox fan stereotypes it's been easy to accept. That we're not suckers for a "towel drill" story, or the traditional blowing smoke up the hindparts that others seem susceptible to...

SoxFest is what it is, fun for kids, strange for the 25+ year olds who go there to collect autographs, stuff...crap. Oh, and instant broadcast fodder from the KSmooth/Reinsdorf/Guillen conferences. Meh.

We ALL want a good team, but Bob, you are right about one thing, until this franchise can routinely draft well, it will be a second tier team....unless Rios & Quentin hit like Walker hopes.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I do, but apparently that's not good enough for you. Which is why I'm telling you to ask for yourself if you don't believe me. Find a college hitting coach (they'll be more available) or something and ask them. If you think I'm lying to you or don't know what I'm talking about, then go ask somebody else that you do believe.

You just don't like Greg Walker and think he is incapable of determining if a guy's swing is on track or not. I'm telling you that pretty much all hitting coaches are able to tell something like that. That is the easiest part of their job. The rest of it is the tough part.[/quote]

Saying I don't like Walker is just plain wrong. I like him. I don't know whether he is or is not a good hitting coach because I am just not sure of the true impact of 90% of the guys. That is why I stay out of the argument. I can admit when I don't know. However, it cannot be debated that his abilities are currently questioned outside the organization and have been questioned inside the organization in the past. That is why I would want an opinion on the subject from someone who is universally respected at the job, like Jaramillo.

Which gets us back to whether YOU know. Now if you had said, "dolphin, I know because I have talked to half a dozen professional hitting coaches and they all say the same thing..." that is authority I will accept. Have you talked to any? What have they said to you? If you haven't, then the truth is that you do not know. You are only speculating based on Walker's opinion that you have received second hand.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Bob, it's not taken personally. But it seems you're failing to recognize that they've taken some very good steps in the right direction in correcting the scouting/development area of the organization. Which, by the way, will not be corrected overnight.

I can answer any questions you ask, but I can also tell when you're just going to dismiss my answers.



As far as the minor leagues go, Bryan, see above. You have to admit it has improved in the last couple of years. And it is much too early to say the Sox are stuck with a bad contract in Rios. I've heard the same reports that he put the claim on Rios to block the Tigers, but that really isn't accurate. Blocking the Tigers was a byproduct. They wanted Rios, but it appears they were expecting the Jays to want to work out a trade, not just hand him over.

You also said that even in Rios' best year, he's nto worth the money...I beg to differ. For $12.5 million a season at a premium defensive position (which he plays extremely well, by the way), he's got a pretty reasonable contract that won't escalate much at all over the next several years (in fact, it only increases by $1 mil in the final year). They key is, though, he has to just perform to his normal level.

I also think the good GMs are the ones that are able to make the unheralded moves that turn out to make a big impact. Anybody can work with a huge payroll, but when you have a tight budget, you've got to make do with what you have. I'm not sure how you can't see Kenny does a pretty good job of that. Take a step back and look at the big picture, Bryan, and tell me this isn't one of the better eras this organization has had.



I'd respond to this, but I seriously don't know what the hell you're trying to say.



Dolphin, what the hell do you think I do when I go to the ballpark? Pleasure myself?

Walker is also universally respected inside baseball circles. The only people that don't respect him are many of the fans here. Players (and ex-players) along with other coaches around the league believe he does just about everything that can be done in his position. He just happens to be in a no-win situation at the moment. For some perspective, let's just say there is one coach within the organization (that I know for a fact Sox fans love and respect), that has said he would never "in a million years" want to be the hitting coach. His words were along the lines of that he "didn't want the ulcers." He recognizes the no-win.

Its been widely reported that the main thing was blocking the Tigers. Obviously I cant KNOW this for sure. But it sure seems to make sense.



Ok well I disagree with that. His normal level is around 280 with 18 Hr 20 stls and a 775 OPS. The OPS has been steadily declining for 4 years straight. I think you can definitely find better.
This goes back to the development thing. You should be able to develop someone who produces as much as Rios has in his last 4 years for a lot cheaper. Someone who you control for another couple years at a bargain price.


Doesnt he regularly have a larger budget than 3 of the other 4 teams in his division?
They dont have a low payroll. Theyve been in the upper half if not the top 10 for a while now. Last year they were 12th.

Kenny Williams does a decent job. Im not saying he's terrible. But some on this board and other places bow to him as if he's one of the best. I dont think he is.

I really don't know how often you are at the park interacting with the baseball world. I never got the feeling you were there getting the inside scoop. It would help you at your job, but I thought they kept you at the SCORE studios except on the occaisonal night you do postgame from the stadium bar. I have always thought the Sox should have you in Arizona to build up some acumen for use during the regular season and at the stadium every night.

Ozzie was openly questioning Walker's ability two years ago and let him hang for a long while waiting for a contract extension when he had already given them to his other assistants. It is not just a few ignorant fans who have had concerns about Walker. We are getting off the point. I am not questioning Walker's ability as I have already admitted that I don't know.

If you say you have reviewed the question with others and they all feel the same then I defer to your researched opinion. You wouldn't lie to your old internet buddy.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.