wow...

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@audioidkid

Apology happily accepted. You are one of my favorite reads, although my Bernsteinesque Mayan Revolutionary friend is probably my favorite!

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I agree. And not to get off topic, but from my experience I dont see how people take advantage of the wellfare system. I have a link card(food stamps) for a few years now on and off. I attempted to get welfare a few years ago and it was the most complicated, intrusive shit I have ever been involved with. They kept sending me the same paper work to fill out, every month, the same package over and over. Then when you try and call to get information it's impossible. After 10 months, and i had a new job, I finally got an interview. They sent me home with more paperwork and then sent me more shit. They wanted to know every little detail about my life. I could have just given up and moved on, but after investing all that time I just kept doing it. Finally, a year after trying to get financial assistance, I was denied. The only people who can take advantage of it, I figure, are those who have it from the day their born.

I had a similar fight with Social Security disability. fought them for 2.5 years. finally got my money though....

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@audioidkid

I hope you guys all saw the newest south park episode about 9/11 you should be amused

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"Do work, son" -Big Black

For all of you fools that fell for loose change, I suggest you click this link:

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

Seriously. Critical thinking skills people. Work on them, before you start spreading deranged theories which blindly implicate goverment officials.


ETA: for a more thorough debunking of conspiracy theories in general, check out this link: http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I am very interested in the debate surrounding 911 and will check out the video.

In the now fairly extensive reading and viewing I've done on this subject, I never ceased to be amused by the condescending attitude of people who buy the government's account towards those who don't. There are many unanswered questions about 911 and a great deal of evidence that points toward some form of government complicity in the attacks. If you have blinded yourself towards this evidence, you're the fool, not those who disagree with you.

By the way, I would consider "Loose Change" the weakest of the "alternative" theories surrounding 911.

Agreed TM. The attitude that people take that "my government would never do such a thing" are the reason that it was possible to rid us of habeas corpus, pass the Patriot Act, lock people up without access to the courts or charges, and other previously unfathomable actions. They are also the same people who dismiss outright that FDR had no hand in precipitating Pearl Harbor and the US involvement in WWII.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Got excited? I'm not excited about everything; that video just does a good job exposing the outright lies, half truths, and baseless assertions in Loose Change. Loose Change is pure bullshit. The other link I posted does a good job explaining the various aspects of 9/11, in particular the supposed "mysterious" collapse of WTC7. Seriously, the information is not hard to find; by now, the only possible reason anyone would regard WTC7 as problematic is that the extent of their "research" is sites such as PrisonPlanet.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I'm so sick of this strawman. I have never once encountered anyone who thought that our government would never do such a thing. Granted, most people are smart enough to realize our government is far too incompetent to pull it off and cover it up, however.

But there's so much shit in these conspiracy theories that is just obviously, obviously false. Such as explosives in the towers, or a missile hitting the Pentagon. There's just no excuse for believing such obviously false garbage.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Hmmm... that's odd, because Implosionworld went to the trouble to make a web page debunking that assertion.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

No, you don't, as you're about to demonstrate:

See, how would you know this? Your entire knowledge of me consists of a few posts, mostly relating to the Bears. I come here and point out that these conspiracy theories are garbage, and you instantly conclude that I don't have an open mind. In other words, in your mind, dismissal of conspiracy theories automatically flags someone as close-minded. So I ask: which of us is closeminded? Here's a hint: it's not me.

Honestly: I have exhaustively studied all this stuff, and the simple fact is that these conspiracy theories don't hold water. The only CS that's even remotely plausible is the "let it happen" theory. Personally, though, I think it's more likely our government was simply incompetent. Occam's razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the best, and government incompetence is the simplest explanation as to why the government failed to prevent the attacks.


Well, it depends on what you mean. There is no reasonable doubt, for example, that a jet hit the Pentagon. There is no reasonble doubt that there were no explosives in the WTC towers or WTC7. Doubt, perhaps, but it's not reasonable. There could be reasonable doubt surrounding government foreknowlege of an attack, but that is very weak in terms of proof of conspiracy, because there will always be reasonable doubt surrounding such circumstances.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

But has there been a successful cover up of anything (assuming there is something to cover up)? Close to 50% of the American population doesn't buy the official 9/11 narrative while Europeans and Middle Easterners also remain wildly skeptical about the story. And that's with the mainstream American media functioning as a de facto propaganda machine for the government since the attacks.

Oh, I'd say there's more than reasonable doubt on this issue given the number of times the U.S. government was warned that A PLANE WAS GOING TO BE FLOWN INTO THE WTC in the months and years prior to the attacks.

Exactly. If the Bush administration concocted this whole event, and someone can prove it, I can think of more than several media outlets that would love eat this up and place the EVIDENCE on the front page. There is no evidence, just question marks. To suggest 9/11 was planned by the Bush administration with malice aforethought is anything but substantiated.

Obviously. There is no working theory to compete with the 'official' version. All there is is arguments from incredulity as to why that story isn't true. At best, you could say that their 'cover story' is a failure, but the actual coverup, assuming there was one, has indeed been successful.


All of it? I no think so, mang.


There was never once such a warning. There were warnings that an attack of some sort was being planned, and even warnings of possible highjackings, but none nearly that specific, and certainly not on numerous occasions.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

How did the gov't know who the hijackers were even though their names weren't on the passenger list?

Why was FEMA flown to NYC the day before the event?

If the theorists are SO wrong and baseless, why even respond to any of our comments?

You are giving the bad guys too much credit. Glad we've wiped out the terrorists in the five plus years our fearless leader has have to git 'em.

The US has the best trained, best equipped military in the history of the planet, shouldn't they be wrapping this up by now?

I bet you think the US won WWII also. I'll give you a hint, the Soviets suffered greater losses over a longer amount of time and still defeated the Nazi's head on.

Please go back to watching the History Channel. I'll sit down and wait for your personal attack.

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CSFMB: Home of the small minded

None of that proves the government was even thinking about planning and covering up an attack.

Da gibt es gar nichts zu lachen!

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tatsächlich war es etwas lustig

It means "That is not funny!" (Meant to be spoken in one's best Heinrich Himmler, Rudolf Hess or Hermann Goerring accent).

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They investigated the matter.


The agency itself was flown to NYC? Wow.


Because, though wrong and baseless, they're presented in such a way that they're convincing on the surface, and widespread belief in them is dangerous and counterproductive. Our government made many mistakes that resulted in 911, and entertaining scenarios that are obviously false only distracts from the real issues.


Wrapped what up, precisely?


Non-sequitur. It doesn't follow that, because the Soviets suffered great losses, they necessarily stopped the Nazis. The fact of the matter is that Hitler's march into Russia was a tremendous mistake, and that coupled with the US forces was a crushing blow to the Nazis. I wonder who you believe ended WWII in the Pacific theatre, though.


LOL, only one of us is making personal attacks here. Hint: it's not me.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Loose Change? Yes.


Your powers of observation must be the greatest the world has ever seen, considering the nature of the vast preponderance of my posts has been sports talk.


Who's they? Which planes?


No, there isn't. There's doubt, but it's based on unreasonable incredulity, and outright falsehoods propogated by the Alex Jones' of the world.


Believe what? Doubt? The problem is you have no working theory. You have a bunch of "doubt" and "problems" with the "official" version, but that's it. There's nothing to believe.


It was also the first time in history two of the tallest buildings on earth were hit by jets traveling in excess of 400 mph. Coincidence? I think not.


Yes, but the one that wasn't hit by the plane was hit and damaged severely by one of the falling towers. Further, that building had enormous diesel fuel tanks for its backup generators. Debunking911 thoroughly addresses the WTC7 collapse.


What tapes are you referring to?


Do some research; Flight 93 basically buried itself into the soft soil (it hit at a very sharp angle and high speed, and the soil at the crashsite is fill, as the area is a former strip mine). All of the bodies were positively identified. It's hurtful that people spread lies about 93 and say it didn't happen, when even a modicum of research clearly proves that people's loved ones did in fact die at that site. It really angers me that people blindly accept and repeat these sort of assertions; it shows a blatant lack of respect for the dead an their relatives.


What about them?


Because work needed doing, apparently.


It didn't. Anyone who touts those figures is lying. You can't tell how fast the tower fell, as it is largely obscured by dust. Regardless, I'm aware of no theory that involves some magical force that makes things fall faster.

Here's a viewer's guide that contains a lot of good information, and directly exposes and addresses the many blatant lies in loose change.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

The best information, free of charge. I'm great, I know.


False. This claim is based on individuals who unfortunately had the same name. They were discovered soon after 911, but later they were discovered to merely be people who shared a common name. This is known to anyone who bothers to read information not from conspiracy websites; see, despite the knowlege that these claims are false, conspiracy websites continue to use them to dupe potential consumers in to believing their "theories," and hopefully, buying their shit.


It is to the best of my knowledge. Certainly it is in the case of high-rises.


Because that's how such buildings react. They're not trees; they're 95% air.


Who says it wasn't? What would be the purpose of analysing the debris?


Because jets are comprised mainly of aluminum, which has a low melting point. But let us step back for a second: why, even if the collapse was the result of demolition charges, would we find molten metal? Since when do explosives produce molten metal? This is one of the claims that should raise flags in the minds of people who aren't determined to find any piece of evidence the least bit unsuspected to be evidence of a conspiracy.


According to whom?


Not bodies. The bodies of the passengers were thoroughly shredded in the impact (think Randy Johnson vs. pidgeon, but the fastball being 5 times faster); body parts were analyzed using DNA evidence, and all passengers were positively identified. Google is your friend.


Yeah, I did miss that, along with the rest of the world, as the collapse was completely obscured by dust. But I'll ask again: how is it you figure an intentional demolition of the building would have caused it to collapse faster?


This is nothing more than fantasy which you use to ignore the facts I bring to the table so that you may continue to believe these insane conspiracy theories (after all, you did admit early in the thread that you're a fan of conspiracy theories). Conspiracy websites love to plant this idea in the reader's mind: anyone who doesn't believe their theories is obviously an unthinking idiot or a shill for the man. It's a crafty, if not underhanded, way for them to build up the defenses their folllowers will inevitably need in the future. It's a sort of martyr complex that they create for their followers that enables them to reject criticism without really considering it.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they're dependent on only looking at individual pieces of the puzzle, and if someone is so inclined, he can easily ignore the other evidence that invalidates them. 9/11 is a perfect example of this: even a cursory examination of the claims made by conspiracy theorists proves that they are false. But for whatever reason, people like to believe them. The Kennedy assassination is an example of how a cottage industry can grow up around such conspiracies, to the point where many people will unquestioningly accept allegations of conspiracy, despite the fact that the actual truth is fairly well known. It's ironic that conspiracy theorists love the credo "follow the money," when it's perfectly obvious that the money-makers in these scenarios are the conspiracy theorists themselves. I wonder how much Alex Jones has made off of 911 alone.

BTW: I'd love to debate the Kennedy assassination in another thread, if anyone thinks I'm talking out my ass. It's sad that Oswald gets a pass in so many people's mind, and that the likes of an Oliver Stone has propped up the reputation of Jim Garrison, whose escapades ruined numerous peoples lives, while wasting vast amounts of taxpayers' money.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4JT6D9KZo this should answer all of your questions about 9/11

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"Do work, son" -Big Black