You know why they are picking this point in particular to use as a weapon of fear? Follow along.

The Republicans have used fear since 9/11 as a motivating factor to win elections - domestic security fears, fear of terrorism abroad, fear of immigrants, fear of homosexuals, all of these have been made campaign issues in the last five years. Now fear of raised taxes (one they have always used, but had disappeared of late) is the one they are going to. Now, the GOP had abandoned the tax issue, because the issue hadn't been nearly the gold mine that terrorism and its related issue had been. However, two polls came out yesterday saying that not only were Democrats polling stronger than before on security issues, but they were pulling ahead when people were asked, "Which party do you believe will do a better job protecting this country from terrorism" or something similar to that, a majority of people polled responded Democrats. Now, the next day, they go back to the tax issue? Not a coincidence, IMO.

_________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Headline of the day...

"Study Reports War Has Claimed 600,000 Iraqi Lives; Bush Rejects Findings"

In all fairness, it was a pretty bad methodology, it shouldn't even be called a study. To get the number, they asked families to tell how many people in their family they lost, which leads to double-counts galore.

But it is a pretty damn funny headline

_________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

busted , like Bush I didn't even read it, heard about it last night. Seems high, but the death toll keeps getting higher for the Iraqis, this past summer was the deadliest yet, meaning were breeding more terrorists over their at our highest rate yet. Just find it odd thatthe right loves to point out how many people Suddam killed but their mum about how many were killing.

I don't believe your assessment is accurate at all. I have heard the principal investigator for this study (and an earlier one on the Iraqi mortality rate) interviewed on the radio multiple times. He says that the families interviewed were asked to produce death certificates. If the families could not produce a death certificate, additional investigations were performed to verify the death and its cause. If a death could not be verified, it was not counted in the study. Further, if the study's methodology were as problematic as you suggest, it would not have been published in a refereed journal like the Lancet.

Not to say I'm democrat or think a demo pres would be doing better right now (my guy has been McCain since 2000), I am so sick of Prez Bush. I'm so sick of all his bullshit. I was watching the election results in '04 in absolute awe. I was amazed that Americans were voting for this guy and his bullshit lies ALL over again. I couldn't believe how blatantly obvious it was e hadn't a clue what he was saying in the debates and yet people came out supported this stupid piece of shit. I know John Kerry isn't the greatest pick for pres ever, but c'mon for the love of God. How many years are Republicans going to "SCARE" america into getting their votes. I think our country and it's voters are pretty pathetic as well. Add all of this to the fact we, as Illinoisans, now have the impossible choice of voting for the two single worst candidates for governor our state has maybe ever seen. I just want to puke about politics all together. I'll be voting for the third party candidate or will write-in Nastradamus so he can being his quest to rule the world.

Nas. is too young to be Pres. Wait about 10 years then do a write in.

Ryan, I paraphrase Ron White. Next time you have a thought on politics, let it go.

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

yeah...um...even I know not to spew my politica with guys like Midge and Dolphin on this board.

_________________
@audioidkid

Sorry, I have a love/hate relationship with politics. It was my minor. I pretty much grew to hate a lot of the bullshit that goes on after studying it and working with some of these people...

Why is that?

I believe the study said the Iraqi insurgents (terrorists) were responsible for this high number. Is that correct ?

While I agree that Bush isn't my favorite Republican or anything like that, I'd vote again for him against Kerry.

For the next elections, I like E.Bryd from Indiana, R.Guiliani as well for his leadership style - I'm hoping we can get past some of this bickering on every issue, and that starts with a strong leader.

Once again, I am amused at the hand wringing over the scare tactics utilized by the Republicans. As if this were some novel idea created by the Bush administration.

No, my friends, this is an old and established tradition in our wonderful 2 party system. Why? Because the majority of the electorate is stupid, ill informed and susceptible to being swayed by fear tactics.

For those of you with children, open their history books. See the Lyndon Johnson political ad in his race against Barry Goldwater. Can we all agree that the imagery of a mushroom cloud sent a very clear implication?

What about the virtual lock that the Democratic Party has on Blacks. Do you think that might have anything to do with years and years of fear tactics? "The Republicans want to return you to the plantation, you will sit at the back of the bus, etc., ad nauseum."

Is there no fear being utilized by Democrats who repeatedly stress the number of Americans killed in Iraq? Oh, I'm sure that they really, really care about those troops and their families. How dare I think that their wailing and moaning is self-serving politics as usual.

It is truly unbelievable that President Bush would talk about the Democrats and taxes. I mean, there's no basis in fact for such talk, right? I'm sure the Democratic Party Platform is chock full of tax cuts. Imagine a President in the middle of a Congressional race trying to stress the positives of his party, and the perceived negatives of his opponents. SHOCKING! Is this a surprise to you? Perhaps you would like Bush better if he came out and said, "You know folks, I have done a really miserable job. Please vote Democrat."

I hated Clinton, but I didn't gnash my teeth every time he bashed the Republicans. Every single time that I hear a Democrat say something about Conservatives which I feel is untrue, I simply resign myself to the fact that it is to be expected in politics.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

Bush is a terrorist by definition meaning he uses fear to get his policies through, ie patriot act

_________________
"Do work, son" -Big Black

7 paragraphs doesn't seem like resignation to me.

Point well taken. At least I feel better.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

As opposed to green

_________________
Homer: "Asleep at the switch"? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!
Bart: I believe you, Dad.

Sorry stonerose that you would give your left nut for Bush, but I just believe him to be a jackass. Too bad the Republicans had to push for GW because of his name and not McCain who actually has this thing called a brain and isn't afraid to stray from his party on certain ideas. And I agree, Dems do the same thing on scare tactics. The Republicans right now are REALLY going above and beyond on this tactic. Makes me sick.

I'm afraid that I have no idea what this means. I do, however, value and respect your opinion.

I suspect that you and I may have reached similar conclusions about Mr. Bush while coming from two very different directions.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

Stone, you are right about both parties being well versed in the fear mongering. The Republicans take a larger beating on it because they have been the ones in power during an extremely confusing time when there is an exceptional amount of fear. If you prefer a Democratic example, FDR did an excellent job when he wished to get the US involved in World War II.

As far as the taxes, I was merely pointing out how this switch in rhetoric took place after the GOP lost their first security polling in a very long while - interesting, no?

And as far as whether or not I (who I assume you addressed, among others) would like Bush better if he came out and said "You know folks, I have done a really miserable job," you are absolutely right - I would love that. The civil liberties, basic tenets of the Bill of Rights, and personal privacy that I have seen eroded or destroyed since 2001 is personally appallling, and I would like the administration to admit some culpability somewhere for things. But that isn't just limited to the administration - no politician has ever admitted fault; the Illinois governor's race is a perfect example of this.

_________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Scholar:

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but could you direct me to that polling data that you referred to earlier?

Thank you.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

I wanted to follow up on yesterday's discussion about the just published study of Iraq's mortality rate.

1)The methodology used in the study is considered the standard for calculating the mortality rate throughout the developing world.

2)John Zogby, one of the most respected statisticians in the world, has reviewed the study's methodology, considers it sound, and agrees with its conclusions.

3)The study did not rely upon word-of-mouth as evidence. For 92% of the deaths reported, death certificates were produced. In the remaining 8% of the cases where no death certificate could be found, other reliable evidence was accepted.

4)The study concludes that Iraqi death totals resulting from the U.S. invasion lie somewhere between 400,000 and 900,000. Statistically speaking, there is only a 2% probability that fewer than 400,000 Iraqis have died from the war. It is most probable that roughly 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of the war.

stone, I do not have the exact polling data, and I saw it on TV (Countdown). However, I was able to find it mentioned waaaaaay down in this article, and I quoted the part you are looking for (it was a Newsweek poll):



I can only find evidence of the Newsweek poll, and nothing on a second poll. On the program, I believe it mentioned the other polling party, but can't find it at any of the frequently mentioned polling agencies or news organizations. Sorry I can't be of more help.

_________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Thought some of you might enjoy this:

http://www.gop.com/MultiMedia/MediaPlayer.aspx?Id=1136

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJmbomyq0fc

sorry for the multiple posts, my browser got stuck, and i hit submit a few times....