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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:12 pm 
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mel junior wrote:
Are those monster ratings outside of state lines of Nebraska?


Yes. They draw from Colorado and other surrounding states.

National TV ratings for Nebraska are behind ND but on par with Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, and Michigan from what I've read.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Everyone is getting too carried away.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
Everyone is getting too carried away.


How so?

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:21 pm 
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BD wrote:
Texas heading to the SEC, possibly with Oklahoma.

Game over.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:26 pm 
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So what does this mean for our Blue Demons?

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:31 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
So what does this mean for our Blue Demons?


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Everyone is getting too carried away.


How so?

Because people are acting like every half-baked rumor that gets spit out by a hick DJ in Podunk, Kansas is legitimate. Patience people. Chances are that there will not be superconferences, just like there weren't in 1987, or 1990, or 1994, or 1999, or any of the other times this has happened.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Everyone is getting too carried away.


How so?

Because people are acting like every half-baked rumor that gets spit out by a hick DJ in Podunk, Kansas is legitimate. Patience people. Chances are that there will not be superconferences, just like there weren't in 1987, or 1990, or 1994, or 1999, or any of the other times this has happened.


I know you've been researching this, so correct me if I'm wrong,.. :lol: since you're known for holding your tongue :lol: .., but isn't there significantly more money on the table now than there was at that time. I think you're talking about a different landscape today.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 pm 
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I don't see any way that we don't officially know at least 3 teams are joining the Big Ten by 2012 by the start of the football season. Many seem to believe that June 1st is actually the deadline due to a 27 month timetable for notice to the Big East.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
[Because people are acting like every half-baked rumor that gets spit out by a hick DJ in Podunk, Kansas is legitimate. Patience people. Chances are that there will not be superconferences, just like there weren't in 1987, or 1990, or 1994, or 1999, or any of the other times this has happened.


I know you've been researching this, so correct me if I'm wrong,.. :lol: since you're known for holding your tongue :lol: .., but isn't there significantly more money on the table now than there was at that time. I think you're talking about a different landscape today.[/quote]

and it's not even speculative money at this point. The systems and the dollars are there right now. The easy part at this point is plugging in the teams.

The Big East is a superconference in basketball. Like the Big East, you will see any conference that expands into super catergory lose its identity and ultimately some of its appeal.

I would also think a set of 4 or so superconferences will make a playoff much more likely.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Everyone is getting too carried away.


How so?

Because people are acting like every half-baked rumor that gets spit out by a hick DJ in Podunk, Kansas is legitimate. Patience people. Chances are that there will not be superconferences, just like there weren't in 1987, or 1990, or 1994, or 1999, or any of the other times this has happened.


The Big Ten is likely to expand to 14 teams by 2012. That much seems to be nearly ironclad.

I would say frontrunners for that are Missouri and Rutgers, with the 3rd being a wild card. ND, Nebraska, Pitt, who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:01 pm 
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And the SEC is a lock to expand to 16 teams in 1990. Florida State is definitely going to join. No doubt about it.

Nearly everything that has been reported has been uncorroborated innuendo. Absolutely nothing it "ironclad", and no one knows what is going to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I know you've been researching this, so correct me if I'm wrong,.. :lol: since you're known for holding your tongue :lol: .., but isn't there significantly more money on the table now than there was at that time. I think you're talking about a different landscape today.

The raw numbers might be more, but the ratios aren't that different.

The circumstances that lead to realignment in the 1980s were many. The SWC blew up spectacularly. The presidents of the Big 10 Universities undertook a stealth takeover of Penn State. There were a massive number of independents looking for financial stability. The Supreme Court blew up the NCAA television cartel and the universities/conferences struggled to create new institutions.

The situation right now isn't that drastic. It could be that a bunch of 14-16 conferences get created and the Big 12/Big East are entirely obliterated. But for that to happen, a tremendous number of Rube Goldberg-like mechanations will have to occur, involving university presidents, athletic directors, boards of trustees, conference presidents, and, in some cases, state legislatures.

Once again, all that could happen. It's not impossible, or not even implausible. But there has been no reliable evidence that this could happen. The main sources on these things to thus far have been either internet based--and those have quickly blown up after scrutiny--and Teddy Greenstein, who has been absolutely disgraceful during this entire episode and, in my opinion, is a good example of why newspapers will be dead soon.

In my opinion, the most likely result is that the Big 10 adds one team. Next most likely is zero. Next is three, and next is five.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:31 am 
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Irish Boy wrote:
And the SEC is a lock to expand to 16 teams in 1990. Florida State is definitely going to join. No doubt about it.

Nearly everything that has been reported has been uncorroborated innuendo. Absolutely nothing it "ironclad", and no one knows what is going to happen.


I have to disagree.

I think the most likely path is one of three options, with the first two options the most likely at this point:

1. Notre Dame feels pressured and inevitably decides that joining the Big Ten is going to occur one way or another, and a 12 team Big Ten makes more sense than a 14 or 16 team Big Ten for them due to the reduced number of teams to share revenue with, so they join under the contingency that the Big Ten would not expand beyond 12 teams. Without this option, there is no way the Big Ten stops at adding just one extra team. If they can’t have Notre Dame initially, it will be a multi-team expansion to fill the revenue gap that Notre Dame would’ve created by penetrating various new markets, such as New York, Kansas City, and St. Louis.

2. The Big Ten is likely to expand to an even numbered Conference to allow for proper divisional breakout, which means expansion by an even number such as 2 or 4 teams is also unlikely, as divisional alignment becomes a problem. Therefore, Missouri and Rutgers climb to the top of the most likely list, since both seem to be drooling at getting into the Big Ten and seeing their revenues for their programs increase by hundreds of millions of dollars over the next decade. Therefore a #3 would have to break into the discussion to fill this out to an even number. There is a lot of talk yesterday on College Football Live that Nebraska is very open to the option of moving outside of the Big 12 for various reasons. They are apparently more open to it than I had previously thought they would be. That would allow them to still schedule Oklahoma annually in non-conference play to retain the rivalry and dramatically increase the revenue they are losing to Texas every year for facility and program improvement. They become a stronger option than previously believed. If they are the 14th team, that would reduce the Big 12 to a 10 team Conference and could have them looking outside for additional filler schools. Notre Dame also enters the picture again in this scenario, since if Nebraska backs out, the Big Ten is likely to turn to Syracuse or Pitt, both in the Big East, which would tear that Conference apart. There is talk the Big East is trying to be proactive and offering other schools to join, perhaps on a contingency basis, like Maryland from the ACC. But the general feeling around College Football is that expansion is coming and the result will be a shakeup of some degree.

3. The most unlikely scenario in the possible scenario category is the Big 10 going all out and adding 5 teams. If that happened, the Mega Conference would likely pull in Notre Dame, Nebraska, Missouri, Rutgers, and a wild card like a Pitt, Maryland, or Syracuse. The implications to this scenario would devastate College Football. The Big East and the Big 12 would be left shopping for schools, and the PAC-10, SEC, and ACC would likely tear apart the Big East and trying to keep pace. Perhaps the remaining Big 12 merges with the PAC 10 to form a new South-West Mega Conference, or the Mountain West is completely torn apart lending 2-4 schools each to the Big 12 and PAC-10.

I would rate the likelihood as such for announcement in the next 12 months and expansion w/in 24-36 months:

0 team expansion = 1%
1 team expansion = 25%
2 team expansion = 3%
3 team expansion = 50%
4 team expansion = 3%
5 team expansion = 15%
6+ team expansion = 3%

Or revised high to low in terms of probability:

3 team expansion = 50%
1 team expansion = 25%
5 team expansion = 15%
2, 4, or 6+ team expansion = 3% each
No expansion = 1%


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Wouldn't TCU be an obvious choice if the Big 12 needed to add in a hurry?

If the Big Ten is expanding all the way west to Nebraska, why not add Colorado? They bring in the Denver market, add another time zone and seem like a willing mover. The network could schedule Big 10 games from 11 am all the way up to 9 pm locally and own the day.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:00 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Wouldn't TCU be an obvious choice if the Big 12 needed to add in a hurry?

If the Big Ten is expanding all the way west to Nebraska, why not add Colorado? They bring in the Denver market, add another time zone and seem like a willing mover. The network could schedule Big 10 games from 11 am all the way up to 9 pm locally and own the day.


TCU would certainly be a viable option. Solid program. Strong track record. Chance to play with the big boys and enter themselves into the National Title picture.

The Big Ten does not appear to be interested in Colorado for a variety of reasons from academics to athletics. The list of possibles is growing and now includes Notre Dame, Nebraska, Rutgers, Missouri, Pitt, Maryland, Syracuse, UCONN, and possibly Texas. Word out of South Bend seems to indicate that ND would only join if they felt the landscape was changing so much that it would create a disadvantage for the school. For instance, should the Big Ten indicate that it is LIKELY to expand to 16 teams, Notre Dame would strongly consider joining the Conference. All indications are that a 16 team Big Ten Mega-Conference would likely lead to expansion by the other Conferences, would dramatically reduce the non-Conference schedules of all Big Ten teams acting to destroy the heavily Big Ten laden schedule that Notre Dame plays now, dramatically affect the school’s strength of schedule and viewership (due to lack of competition), and negatively impact their recruiting and ability to play for a National Title. They will do everything possible to remain independent, but seem to acknowledge that there are scenarios that could force their hand. They only seem interested in going that far west for a traditional powerhouse like Nebraska or Texas, not for a typically 7-5 or 8-4 team with questionable academics.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:48 am 
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BD wrote:
but seem to acknowledge that there are scenarios that could force their hand.


Where are you reading that? I see alot of people speculating that, but frankly I've never seen anyone high up in Notre Dame's administration even suggesting that.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:58 am 
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My_name_1s_MUD wrote:
BD wrote:
but seem to acknowledge that there are scenarios that could force their hand.


Where are you reading that? I see alot of people speculating that, but frankly I've never seen anyone high up in Notre Dame's administration even suggesting that.

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-09/swarbrick-expansion-could-force-nd-move

Oops. Wrong first link.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:34 am 
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Perfect. I wasn't sure it was comments attributed to someone or just blogosphere speculation (I expected the latter). Thanks BR.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:51 am 
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For the record, he later related somewhat. The bigger danger for ND is a big east ultimatum that leaves them completely independent.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:35 pm 
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My_name_1s_MUD wrote:
BD wrote:
but seem to acknowledge that there are scenarios that could force their hand.


Where are you reading that? I see alot of people speculating that, but frankly I've never seen anyone high up in Notre Dame's administration even suggesting that.


"Our preference is clear," Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said Tuesday. "I believe we're at a point right now where changes could be relatively small or they could be seismic."
Swarbrick said it will be up to him and university president Rev. John Jenkins to "evaluate the landscape" if realignment happens.
"You can each come up with a scenario that would force our hand," he told a small group of reporters at a Manhattan restaurant.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Thanks for the second time.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
For the record, he later related somewhat. The bigger danger for ND is a big east ultimatum that leaves them completely independent.


The biggest danger for Notre Dame is a scenario that revolves around four 16 team mega conferences being born, which changes the face of the BCS and alters the potential opponents that Notre Dame can schedule, dramatically reducing their schedule quality, their viewership, and their recruiting by seeing them get phased out.

Remember that your average 16 year old was born in 1994 and has no idea what Notre Dame tradition is all about. Notre Dame hasn’t been dominant since the late 80’s. You can only ride the coattails of success that occurred 25 years ago for so long. Ask SMU, Nebraska, Army, Navy, and Florida State about that. If Notre Dame becomes irrelevant, then they could be left with a system that has erased the Big East or Big 12 entirely and leaves them with no Conference to merge with.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:05 pm 
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FSU and Nebraska are doing just fine popularity-wise. SMU was only dominant for a short period, and the death penalty changes the equation. Army and Navy have been irrelevant since the 40s.

Notre Dame is still partially insulated because of the Catholicism. And they haven't been bad for that long; Brady Quinn went to a BCS bowl.

They need a conference for their nonrevenue sports though, or they're in some trouble. But I don't think the scheduling problem is as big of a problem as you think it is.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:35 am 
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Irish Boy wrote:
FSU and Nebraska are doing just fine popularity-wise. SMU was only dominant for a short period, and the death penalty changes the equation. Army and Navy have been irrelevant since the 40s.

Notre Dame is still partially insulated because of the Catholicism. And they haven't been bad for that long; Brady Quinn went to a BCS bowl.

They need a conference for their nonrevenue sports though, or they're in some trouble. But I don't think the scheduling problem is as big of a problem as you think it is.


Neither Florida State or Nebraska draw the national fan base anymore that they drew when they were dominant. FSU loses out now that it is the 3rd and sometimes the 4th best team in the State of Florida, let alone the nation. Fans don't even talk about them anymore. It's Florida in the North and Miami in the South. As for Nebraska, Big 12 fans who were not diehard Nebraska fans are now bigger supporters of the Oklahoma's and the Texas' of the Conference now that Nebraska has been an afterthought in the Conference picture for the past 15 years.

For Notre Dame, that BCS berth was undeserved. 10-2 without a single signature win of note all year? Come on. And they got it handed to them in that game by OSU.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 am 
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BD wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
FSU and Nebraska are doing just fine popularity-wise. SMU was only dominant for a short period, and the death penalty changes the equation. Army and Navy have been irrelevant since the 40s.

Notre Dame is still partially insulated because of the Catholicism. And they haven't been bad for that long; Brady Quinn went to a BCS bowl.

They need a conference for their nonrevenue sports though, or they're in some trouble. But I don't think the scheduling problem is as big of a problem as you think it is.


Neither Florida State or Nebraska draw the national fan base anymore that they drew when they were dominant. FSU loses out now that it is the 3rd and sometimes the 4th best team in the State of Florida, let alone the nation. Fans don't even talk about them anymore. It's Florida in the North and Miami in the South. As for Nebraska, Big 12 fans who were not diehard Nebraska fans are now bigger supporters of the Oklahoma's and the Texas' of the Conference now that Nebraska has been an afterthought in the Conference picture for the past 15 years.

For Notre Dame, that BCS berth was undeserved. 10-2 without a single signature win of note all year? Come on. And they got it handed to them in that game by OSU.


Conference expansion is a bad idea & will hurt in the long run. Conferences should be geography based, which encourages rivalry's & it allows fans to travel to most of the games.
A conference with more than 12 teams just doesn't make sense. Having a team in NJ join the Big 10 makes even less sense.
Mizzou & Nebraska make the most sense...at least they are in the midwest.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:15 am 
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Geography matters a heckuva lot less today. TV matters more which is why so much of this is exploding after the introduction of the Big Ten Network. Traveling to places is alot easier and seeing every game is possible now through the various TV contracts. I don't think proximity to the Midwest should matter that much.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:21 am 
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THE GOOD OLD NEBRASKA-OKLAHOMA GAME HAS BEEN WATERED DOWN TO WHERE THEY DON'T PLAY EVERY YEAR IN THEIR OWN LEAGUE.....

This is simple...the Big 10 lets Notre Dame keep its own TV contract forever....The visiting teams get a cut of the money right now...so in the Super Conference Big 10, the Big 10 visiting teams get their cut from Notre Dame, too.

IT IS A WIN WIN FOR EVERYBODY.......NOTRE DAME MAKES SOME EXTRA CASH FROM THEIR OWN TV DEAL......
SO WHAT?

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:51 pm 
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To say "it's all about the money" is a bit simplistic. If it were all about the money, ND likely would have joined back in the 90s, NBC deal notwithstanding.

There's a lot of places in the expansion chain where money isn't going to play the primary role. The Texas legislature is almost certainly going to demand that Texas is not split from A&M. The Pac-10 (read: Stanford) will never take A&M as an academic institution; Colorado is having enough problems on that score. Texas has a problem with the academics of the SEC. The Big 10 presidents might balk at Nebraska or even Missouri. There are a lot of complications here.

Another thing to remember is that the SEC has a locked-in contract with ESPN. If they add more members, that money is just going to get split 14 ways instead of 12. If those two extra teams are Texas and Texas A&M, they might not care, but then again, see Texas academics point above.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Big Ten?
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
T

Another thing to remember is that the SEC has a locked-in contract with ESPN. If they add more members, that money is just going to get split 14 ways instead of 12. If those two extra teams are Texas and Texas A&M, they might not care, but then again, see Texas academics point above.


I think that's a good point and that's why the Big 10 (and more specifically the Big 10 Network) is driving this expansion conversation. The ability to add new subscribors in new markets for the B10 Network is the game-changer. That's why Mizzou and Rutgers is so appealing to them with the addition of four new top 30 TV markets (NY, Phi, KC and StL) ...

And it's why I still question Nebraska. Omaha is the biggest market and it's ranked 76th, behind such giant markets such as Little Rock, AR and Springfield, MO. Lincoln is 105th, by the way.

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi


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