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 Post subject: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:19 pm 
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My son wakes up between 5:30 and 5:50 every morning. We call him the CEO. He rolls out of bed, stomps toward his door, opens it, walks out, slams the door as hard as he can, then stomps into our bedroom saying, "Come on, let's go downstairs" in his little boy voice. If I want to wake up early, I don't even set an alarm clock anymore. I just rely on him.

So when I wanted to get up early to write about Thursday night's Game 6 in Boston, I just assumed he would wake me up in time. Nope. He woke up at 6:45. An hour late. I hopped out of bed for a hasty wake-up shower, but not before asking him, "What happened? Where were you?"

His answer: "I don't know, daddy. I didn't wake up."

Same goes for the Cleveland Cavaliers. They never woke up.

You could pick this series apart for years, but the NBA playoffs boil down to one thing: urgency. For professional basketball, there are three types and three types only. The first occurs when a team collectively says, "We would walk through fire to win this game." (Think 2008 Celtics, 2009 Lakers or 2010 Suns.) The second happens when a former champion that's battled internally to keep its edge says to itself, "You know what? We're not done yet. We're not ready to give this up." (Call it a retro-urgency. Think 2010 Celtics or 2010 Lakers.) The third is faux urgency -- when a team doesn't trust each other or its coach, and they don't have the right leadership in place, but they're desperately pressing to make a bad situation work anyway. That's the worst kind of urgency. Everyone fully understands the magnitude of the moment, only they can't quite do enough about it. Maybe it looks like they're trying, but their body language betrays them.

(Important note: If you don't want to leave out the 2010 Atlanta Hawks, then "complete apathy" is the fourth type of urgency. By the way, I have no idea whether Orlando has real urgency or faux urgency. I'm leaning toward the latter. Stay tuned.)

You cannot call what happened in the Cavs-Celtics series an upset. Boston played better in five of the six games. That had four of the five best players. They were better defensively. Their best player (Rajon Rondo) played better than Cleveland's best player (LeBron James). They had playoff-proven guys who kept coming through. They had better crowds. They showed more heart. This was not an upset ... but still, it felt like one. And only because we were duped by Cleveland's faux urgency (for most of the season, it felt genuine) and Boston's retro-urgency (for most of the season, it was dormant). The playoffs hinge on toughness, chemistry, defense, leadership and urgency. Cleveland lost all of those battles. Every one of them.

I once heard a great story about Game 6 of the 2006 Finals, when Miami was trying to clinch the title in Dallas, from someone who has seen the unedited footage of Miami's huddles during the second-half timeouts. Pat Riley basically stopped coaching. Threw out his X's and O's. Quit giving advice. Stopped drawing up plays.

So what did he do? He screamed at his guys like a boxing trainer. You're tougher than them! YOU'RE TOUGHER THAN THEM! Don't let up! They are ready to quit! They are ready to fold! Keep attacking them! Keep getting to the rim! Keep knocking their asses down! No layups! No dunks! Stay together! YOU ARE TOUGHER THAN THEM! YOU ARE TOUGHER THAN THEM! That's what he did for the entire second half. Eventually, his players believed him.

Remember that story when you're picking apart James this summer. From the moment he entered the NBA, he's been asked to do everything himself. He's never had a good coach. He's never had a great teammate, or even a very good one. These past two years, he's been asked to vacillate between Magic Mode and MJ Mode depending on the situation. Because his front office screwed up so many times, his supporting cast ended up being a peculiar blend of hand-me-downs, discount guys and bargain pickups from teams that wanted to cut salary. It ended up being too much. One-man teams don't win titles.

As summer free agency approaches, LeBron's camp will shift public blame to his coach (Mike Brown, who could be sued by Cavs fans for coaching malpractice after this series) and his GM (Danny Ferry, who dropped the ball at the 2009 trade deadline and never found LeBron a Pippen-type supporting guy). They will make the following sentiment clear to Cleveland owner Dan Gilbert: For LeBron to even consider staying, you need to splurge on a better coach and a better GM. And even then, LeBron might leave. Part of me doesn't blame him.

Part of me.

Because the other part feels like we learned something substantial about LeBron James this spring. I always thought his ceiling looked like this: Jordan's DNA crossed with Magic's DNA crossed with Bo Jackson. Nope. Take the Jordan DNA out. Have to. Jordan was a ruthless mother******. Jordan was a killer. Jordan didn't care if his teammates despised him. Jordan never, ever, not in a million years, would have allowed his team to quit in the final two minutes of last night's game like LeBron did. His teammates feared him, loathed him, revered him and played accordingly. Bird had that same quality. In the second half of his career, so did Magic. Winning meant so much to those guys that their teammates almost didn't have a choice; they had to follow suit. Or else.

LeBron James is 25 years old. He's played seven seasons -- 548 regular-season games and 71 playoff games. There's a feeling that he can still get better, and with better teammates, maybe he could. But fundamentally, to paraphrase Bill Parcells, he is what he is at this point -- a gregarious, larger-than-life, supremely gifted basketball player who's better at making us say "WOW!" than anything else. If he owned that cutthroat Jordan chromosome, or Magic's leadership chromosome, it would have surfaced by now. In Wednesday's column before Game 6, I mentioned how there comes a point in every great player's career when you have to pour the cement, let it harden and see what you have. We poured the cement for LeBron in this series. It hardened last night. We know what we have.

And last night, LeBron's DNA finally made sense to me. Throw Jordan out. Throw Magic out, too, except for the "controls sections of a game with passing/rebounding" part. Keep Bo. Now, add this guy ... Julius Erving.

I will explain.

Doc was one of the 20 best NBA players of all-time. (In my book, I ranked him 16th.) Like LeBron, he did things on a basketball court that nobody had ever seen before. Like LeBron, he made the court shrink with a full head of steam. Like LeBron, his peers revered his talents. Like LeBron, he was articulate and thoughtful. Like LeBron, you watched him from afar and thought, "He seems like a good guy." Like LeBron, he was a small forward who rebounded bigger than his size (at least the first few years). Like LeBron, his durability was almost unparalleled. (Doc played in 1,277 of a possible 1,395 games, including seven seasons of 95-plus games). Like LeBron, women and children loved him. Like LeBron, he was extremely savvy about his image (and how to cultivate it). Like LeBron, he was an incredible, once-in-a-generation athlete. Like LeBron, his faulty outside shooting plagued him, so teams laid off him, packed the middle and prayed he would miss 20-footers. And like LeBron, he was a nice guy.

(Hold that last thought for a second.)

Doc at age 26 (ABA, 1975-76 season, his fifth): 29.3 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 50.7% FG.

LeBron at age 25 (this year, his seventh season): 29.7 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 8.6 APG, 50.3% FG.

Doc in the '76 playoffs (13 games): 34.7 PPG, 12.6 RPG, 4.9 APG, 53.3% FG.

LeBron in the '10 playoffs (11 games): 29.1 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 7.6 APG, 50.2% FG.

The big difference: Doc captured two ABA titles (in '74 and '76). LeBron hasn't won anything. Of course, the ABA played right into Doc's wheelhouse -- the league didn't have enough big guys, nobody played defense, a schoolyard-type game carried the day, and the league was diluted enough that someone as gifted as Doc could run roughshod. When the ABA and NBA merged in the summer of 1976, Doc switched teams (to Philly) and the big question became, "When will Doctor J win an NBA title?"

Now here's where the parallels get interesting. Doc spent the next six seasons falling short as everyone picked him apart. Stuff like, "He's not the same guy that he was in the ABA," "he's too nice, he doesn't have a killer instinct" and "his teammates are letting him down." The '77 Sixers (a selfish team of freelancers) memorably self-combusted in the Finals against Walton's methodical Blazers. When the '78 Bullets shocked Philly in six, not only did Washington's Bobby Dandridge outplay Doc in the series, but everyone started calling David Thompson the NBA's best ABA import (not Doc). The '79 Spurs knocked Philly out again, with San Antonio's Larry Kenon playing Doc to a draw. (That March, Sports Illustrated ran a feature called "Hey, What's Up With the Doc?" and wondered if his best years were behind him.) Once Philly quietly started building a team of unselfish guys around him (Caldwell Jones, Bobby Jones, Mo Cheeks) and found him a second scorer (Andrew Toney), Doc's fortunes changed: Finals appearances in 1980 and 1982, as well as a (dubious, but still) MVP award in 1981. But only when Philly acquired Moses Malone, a true alpha dog and the league's best player at the time, did Doc finally get an NBA ring (in 1983).

Let's go back to those first three Philly seasons: Doc was stuck playing with guys like George McGinnis (the ultimate ballstopper, owner of the all-time turnover record), World B. Free (gunner), Darryl Dawkins (great athlete, low basketball IQ), Jellybean Bryant (Kobe's dad -- I don't need to say any more) and Doug Collins (another guy who needed shots). He deferred to them way too much. For the '76 Nets, Doc averaged 22.7 shots per game. From '77 through '79: 16.7, 16.4, 18.7. Do you realize what a joke that was? Unfortunately, he was too nice of a guy. Doc allowed everyone else to determine his destiny. When he tried to take over ... it never felt right. He was always one of those flow-of-the-game stars. Always. The same quality that made him a wonderful teammate also made him a liability if things were falling apart.

(Sound familiar?)

Doc's Philly teams kept self-combusting at the worst possible times. The '77 Sixers took a 2-0 lead in the Finals, then blew four straight. They lost do-or-die playoff games by two points (1978) and three points (1979). In 1980, everyone remembers Magic (only a rookie) playing five positions, notching a 42-15-7 and improbably winning Los Angeles the title; nobody ever wonders why Philly, playing at home against a team missing the 1980 MVP (Kareem), laid such an unforgivable egg. In 1981, the Sixers blew a 3-1 series lead to Boston in the Eastern Conference finals, losing the last three games by five points total. (And by the way, they led in the final minute of all three games.) By the time Philly blew the 1982 Finals, the consensus on Doc was this: Phenomenal player, loved by all, an ambassador to the game, one of the best ever ... doesn't quite have it.

Then Moses showed up, Philly finally won a title, and everyone forgot that they felt that way.

Back to LeBron: I think we know what we have. He's Doc 2.0 with a little Magic and a healthy dose of Bo sprinkled in. That means the following ...

1. LeBron can win an NBA title (or titles) as the best player on a really good team with another leader in place (whether it's a great coach or another player).

2. If LeBron switches teams to a similar situation like what he had in Cleveland these past two years (basically, LeBron and the LeBronettes), that won't translate to titles. (FYI: he finished seven wins short last spring and 10 wins short this spring. Not even close.) Staying in Cleveland, hiring John Calipari and sign-and-trading Jamison and Hickson to Toronto for Chris Bosh ... that's not solving the problem here. Neither will jumping to the Knicks/Clippers/Mavericks.

3. If he cares about winning titles (multiple) and reaching his full potential as a player, he only has one move: the Chicago Bulls. That's always been the play. If you've been listening to my podcast or reading this column, you know that I've been touting this possibility since last winter, and here's why: Deep down, I think LeBron (and just as important, the people around him) realizes that he needs one more kick-ass player to make his life easier. That means Miami or Chicago. And really, I can't imagine him signing with Miami because Wade is almost too good. LeBron wants help, but he doesn't want to be perceived as riding someone else's coattails, either. Dwyane Wade might be the best player alive for all we know -- he certainly was in 2006, and he's been banged-up and trapped on bad teams ever since.

No, Chicago makes more sense. Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah proved that they were warriors these past two springs. They could be his Pippen/Grant or McHale/DJ. Easily. Rose could take the creative load off LeBron on nights that he doesn't have it. Rose could come through a few times in the clutch. Rose could hide some of LeBron's faults. It's the single smartest basketball move for LeBron James. It's the Michael Corleone move.

Of course, it doesn't have the same upside as New York: Biggest market, great fans, most meaning. If LeBron saved professional basketball in New York and brought Knicks fans their first title since 1973? That's the best available accomplishment in team sports right now. Name me a better one. You can't. Biggest star, biggest city. But it wouldn't be a smart basketball move. He could bring only one good free agent with him, and from what we've seen, would LeBron + (Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Joe Johnson or Amar'e Stoudemire) combined with what the Knicks already have (not much) translate to anything more than what just happened in Cleveland? Please. That's the Sonny Corleone Move.

The other realistic option: Just stay in Cleveland. Finish what you started. That's the second-best available accomplishment in team sports right now: Be like Tim Duncan. Be the guy who didn't flee for greener pastures. Be the guy who stayed when almost everyone else would have left. Be the hometown kid who saved Cleveland sports, brought them their first title since 1964 and single-handedly removed the fatalistic malaise that hangs over the city. Be the guy who proved loyalty matters more than anything else. That's the Connie Corleone move. Remember when she finally forgave Michael for killing Carlo and became the matriarch of the family? Exactly. Family trumped logic.

(And yes, if you're scoring at home, the Clippers would be the Fredo Corleone move.)

It's one of the greatest sports decisions I can ever remember: LeBron can choose winning (Chicago), loyalty (Cleveland) or a chance at immortality (New York). We have one answer -- Doc 2.0 with some Magic and Bo sprinkled in -- and now, we're waiting on the other. Within the next six weeks, we will find out precisely what matters to LeBron James. Just know that, wherever he lands, he's going to need a little more help than we thought.

Final point: Between Games 5 and 6 of the Cavs-Celtics series, an Austin reader named Chris Rider sent me the following e-mail:

"I figured LeBron out, dude. I think you define a player by defining what is most important to them in one word.

"MJ -- Winning. Hands down, all he wanted to do was win. And that's over-used for a lot of athletes, but not him.

"Kobe -- Greatness. Yes he's going to win some, but only because he wants to be considered great and that will be a by-product at times. But you'd also see him shoot his team out of a game; jack 3s when he should press the issue and get to the paint. He didn't mind losing a few games if people came away saying 'Kobe is great; look what happens when he doesn't shoot.'"

"LeBron -- Amaze. I think he just really wants to amaze people. Which is why he spends 10 minutes before the game throwing underhand, left-hand half-court shots. Why he celebrates amazing dunks and blocks, but isn't working just as hard to win. I know the Cavs aren't great without him, but he's got PLENTY on that team to win rings with."

Is that totally fair? Probably not. But just for fun, let's extend Chris' game ...

Russell, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Walton, West and Havlicek: Winning.

Wilt: Numbers.

Oscar and Barry: Perfection.

Shaq: Fame.

Kareem and Elgin: Pride.

Moses: Rebounds.

Malone and Garnett: Work.

Barkley: Fun.

Cousy, Stockton, Isiah, Pippen and Nash: Team.

For Doc and LeBron, you probably need more than one word. By the rules of the game, we can use only one. And so, we're forced to pick this one: Amaze. You are who you are.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:58 pm 
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That's excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:17 pm 
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So Lebron is kinda soft and lacks that killer warrior instinct but D. Rose and J. Noah have it? Then why did the Bulls get crushed by the "no heart" Cavs in what was a shot shy of a sweep series.

And the Bulls primary "warrior" in last year's epic battle between the Celts and Bulls now plays for the Detroit Pistons. Bulls-Celts 2009 isn't even a series without Ben Gordon. And those were the Celtics without KG.

Simmons is alright, his podcasts with stats guys and vegas handicappers are a wealth of great info, but he too often says stupid shite without thinking it through, like when he compared Tigers comeback from too much pussy to Muhammad Ali's comeback from protesting the Vietnam War and being stripped of his boxing privileges in the United States and hounded by both the Nation of Islam and the U.S. Government and reviled by fans for his actions.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:12 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
So Lebron is kinda soft and lacks that killer warrior instinct but D. Rose and J. Noah have it? Then why did the Bulls get crushed by the "no heart" Cavs in what was a shot shy of a sweep series.

And the Bulls primary "warrior" in last year's epic battle between the Celts and Bulls now plays for the Detroit Pistons. Bulls-Celts 2009 isn't even a series without Ben Gordon. And those were the Celtics without KG.

Simmons is alright, his podcasts with stats guys and vegas handicappers are a wealth of great info, but he too often says stupid shite without thinking it through, like when he compared Tigers comeback from too much pussy to Muhammad Ali's comeback from protesting the Vietnam War and being stripped of his boxing privileges in the United States and hounded by both the Nation of Islam and the U.S. Government and reviled by fans for his actions.


they got beat because the Cavs have more talent. but also remember the Bulls would surely had been seeded higher had they not had so many injuries. I don't think Rose or Noah are soft at all- i mean especially Rose he takes a lot of hits going to the hole- but that's besides the point, it's that it would take some of the burden and responsibilities off James and really make all of them better players. plus the point being if you are going to get yourself into a situation like the Celtics series where lebron is being a bitch for whatever reason, that Rose could take over. You really don't want anyone else on the Cavs shooting a game deciding shot other than Lebron, but if he were playing w/ Rose I would be more than fine with Rose taking it


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:59 pm 
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that was a good article. very good comparison to erving. and wasn't overly cute or overwrought with boston references. and he's absolutely right that the move that makes the most sense is to go to the bulls.

but the repercussions of him leaving will be tremendously bad for his image. you gave up on your city and your team. and you came to a rival team that used to own that city. that would've been like jim brown leaving the browns to play for the steelers--except their rivalry is obviously more heated than chicago/cleveland. but i can't believe any cleveland fan would want to see the bulls ever succeed again. and especially take "their king".


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:19 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
that was a good article. very good comparison to erving. and wasn't overly cute or overwrought with boston references. and he's absolutely right that the move that makes the most sense is to go to the bulls.

but the repercussions of him leaving will be tremendously bad for his image. you gave up on your city and your team. and you came to a rival team that used to own that city. that would've been like jim brown leaving the browns to play for the steelers--except their rivalry is obviously more heated than chicago/cleveland. but i can't believe any cleveland fan would want to see the bulls ever succeed again. and especially take "their king".


Wining cures all of that. It didn't hurt Shaq's image.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Really good article, and not because of the Chicago angle either......

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:10 pm 
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what about this : LeBron signs a 2 year deal (with maybe another year or two of player options, I think all the free agents this year have player options for next season they are walking away from) to stay with Cleveland. Because of the impending NBA lockout and likely cancellation of the 2011 NBA season, that in effect becomes a 1 year deal. The Cleveland owner goes balls out to give James the coach and supporting cast he thinks he needs and the Cavs make another run at the title.

This gives LeBron the opportunity to see what the fall out will be from the 2011 lock out (there's discussion of downsizing the league, shutting down and moving franchises) and then he goes elsewhere after the lockout season.

Because there will not have been basketball that season, Cleveland fans are far less invested in what Lebron does after a lock-out season. And Lebron can say he gave it his best shot and leave Cleveland without taking a direct hit to his "image" or "legacy" or what have you--it's more of an indirect hit.

One concern for LeBron from a financial standpoint is that the new CBA might end up costing him money. But I think that the issues the owners want to address have more to do with rookie salaries and paying the 10th guy at the end of the bench $4 million a season to play 4 minutes a week. they want more of an MLB type compensation structure, I'm guessing. So maybe the veterans/superstars come out of it just as well off of maybe even with more $$$'s freed up for them, taken, of course, from their lesser teammates. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:10 am 
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HOVA wrote:

Wining cures all of that. It didn't hurt Shaq's image.


if you're talking about shaq leaving the magic; he wasn't from orlando. and the magic had no real history. they had only been around 7 years by the time he left for LA.

and with the lakers, he was kind of forced out; or at least, there was more commotion than just what he created when he left. and again, he wasn't from LA either.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:22 am 
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W_Z wrote:
HOVA wrote:

Wining cures all of that. It didn't hurt Shaq's image.


if you're talking about shaq leaving the magic; he wasn't from orlando. and the magic had no real history
. they had only been around 7 years by the time he left for LA.

and with the lakers, he was kind of forced out; or at least, there was more commotion than just what he created when he left. and again, he wasn't from LA either.


W_Z wrote:
that was a good article. very good comparison to erving. and wasn't overly cute or overwrought with boston references. and he's absolutely right that the move that makes the most sense is to go to the bulls.

but the repercussions of him leaving will be tremendously bad for his image. you gave up on your city and your team. and you came to a rival team that used to own that city. that would've been like jim brown leaving the browns to play for the steelers
--except their rivalry is obviously more heated than chicago/cleveland. but i can't believe any cleveland fan would want to see the bulls ever succeed again. and especially take "their king".


Jim Brown wasn't from Cleveland either. You've narrowed it down pretty far. How many icons have played in their home state recently? There is no upside in staying when your roster will get older and worse every year. There is no fresh young talent of the Cavs and they have nothing to trade to bring in that talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:34 am 
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HOVA wrote:
Jim Brown wasn't from Cleveland either. You've narrowed it down pretty far. How many icons have played in their home state recently? There is no upside in staying when your roster will get older and worse every year. There is no fresh young talent of the Cavs and they have nothing to trade to bring in that talent.


oh i see what you mean--from a star perspective, yes that's right. i didn't mean jim brown was from ohio; just that it was really hard for me to find another cleveland star that had that much impact. what i'm saying though is that for lebron who is from ohio, it would look worse in that he's a "home grown hero". if he wins for chicago or some other town...maybe nationally it's recognized as "hey at least he's winning" but it would leave a bad taste in some people's mouths.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:36 am 
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W_Z wrote:
HOVA wrote:
Jim Brown wasn't from Cleveland either. You've narrowed it down pretty far. How many icons have played in their home state recently? There is no upside in staying when your roster will get older and worse every year. There is no fresh young talent of the Cavs and they have nothing to trade to bring in that talent.


oh i see what you mean--from a star perspective, yes that's right. i didn't mean jim brown was from ohio; just that it was really hard for me to find another cleveland star that had that much impact. what i'm saying though is that for lebron who is from ohio, it would look worse in that he's a "home grown hero". if he wins for chicago or some other town...maybe nationally it's recognized as "hey at least he's winning" but it would leave a bad taste in some people's mouths.


Got you and I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:03 am 
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I know it would be hard for Cavs fans to see it this way, but what do they expect LeBron to do?

Since they tanked their season and landed LeBron in the lottery, every move they have made has been wrong.

Its not like there's some dominant team winning titles and the Cavs are just not over the hump. (Like Peyton Manning not being able to beat the Pats for a while. No one could say the Colts didnt give him the weapons) The list of LeBrons best teammates is especially pathetic.

If Im a Cavs fan, im still pissed about the Boozer Sha-bacle


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:06 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I know it would be hard for Cavs fans to see it this way, but what do they expect LeBron to do?

Since they tanked their season and landed LeBron in the lottery, every move they have made has been wrong.

Its not like there's some dominant team winning titles and the Cavs are just not over the hump. (Like Peyton Manning not being able to beat the Pats for a while. No one could say the Colts didnt give him the weapons) The list of LeBrons best teammates is especially pathetic.

If Im a Cavs fan, im still pissed about the Boozer Sha-bacle


Terrible move by Boozer.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:36 am 
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HOVA wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I know it would be hard for Cavs fans to see it this way, but what do they expect LeBron to do?

Since they tanked their season and landed LeBron in the lottery, every move they have made has been wrong.

Its not like there's some dominant team winning titles and the Cavs are just not over the hump. (Like Peyton Manning not being able to beat the Pats for a while. No one could say the Colts didnt give him the weapons) The list of LeBrons best teammates is especially pathetic.

If Im a Cavs fan, im still pissed about the Boozer Sha-bacle


Terrible move by Boozer.

Equally terrible from Jim Paxson's point of view.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:02 pm 
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True. He was trying to do him a favor and Boozer did what ML asshole do. At that point Paxson could say nothing about the deal they had agreed to.

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:07 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
True. He was trying to do him a favor and Boozer did what ML asshole do. At that point Paxson could say nothing about the deal they had agreed to.

Its not Show-friends its Showbusiness.

That was the ultimate small timers move.

Embarrassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:20 pm 
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True

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:04 pm 
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I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:14 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.


Paxson didn't give him a qualifying offer so he could pay him more money.

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:15 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.

I dont even think he should have negotiated.

"Youre a second rd pick. Keep playing well and youll get paid eventually."


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:18 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.


Paxson didn't give him a qualifying offer so he could pay him more money.


just a question - if it's obvious to everyone what occurred there- that in essence a "underhanded deal" was taking place, shouldn't the Cavs have been punished for that? i realize it didn't actually occur but the intention was to circumvent the rules

that's essentially why the Wolves got punished for the joe smith deal


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.


Paxson didn't give him a qualifying offer so he could pay him more money.


just a question - if it's obvious to everyone what occurred there- that in essence a "underhanded deal" was taking place, shouldn't the Cavs have been punished for that? i realize it didn't actually occur but the intention was to circumvent the rules

that's essentially why the Wolves got punished for the joe smith deal


Right this, and the fact that they offered him like $30 million less than his worth. Cleveland has noone but Cavs management to blame for that one.

Either way, the Cavs have done such a bad management job anyway I cant see LeBron staying, except for the fact that the Bulls and Knicks have had almost equally inept management this decade.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I liked the article and thought it did a good job summarazing the choices. I agree with RPB on the Boozer deal. I dont blame Boozer, Paxson shouldnt have tried to lowball him so much.


Paxson didn't give him a qualifying offer so he could pay him more money.


just a question - if it's obvious to everyone what occurred there- that in essence a "underhanded deal" was taking place, shouldn't the Cavs have been punished for that? i realize it didn't actually occur but the intention was to circumvent the rules

that's essentially why the Wolves got punished for the joe smith deal


True. Noway to prove it though. Paxson was smart about not putting anything on paper. It was a handshake deal.

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:25 pm 
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HOVA wrote:

True. Noway to prove it though. Paxson was smart about not putting anything on paper. It was a handshake deal.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know what youre saying but thats funny anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:30 pm 
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:lol:

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:38 pm 
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guess that makes Paxson at least smarter than McHale :?


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Celtic for life.

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spanky wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In the grand SCEME (not scope, Dumbass) pf things

Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:12 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
You could pick this series apart for years, but the NBA playoffs boil down to one thing: urgency. For professional basketball, there are three types and three types only. The first occurs when a team collectively says, "We would walk through fire to win this game." (Think 2008 Celtics, 2009 Lakers or 2010 Suns.) The second happens when a former champion that's battled internally to keep its edge says to itself, "You know what? We're not done yet. We're not ready to give this up." (Call it a retro-urgency. Think 2010 Celtics or 2010 Lakers.) The third is faux urgency -- when a team doesn't trust each other or its coach, and they don't have the right leadership in place, but they're desperately pressing to make a bad situation work anyway. That's the worst kind of urgency. Everyone fully understands the magnitude of the moment, only they can't quite do enough about it. Maybe it looks like they're trying, but their body language betrays them.

(Important note: If you don't want to leave out the 2010 Atlanta Hawks, then "complete apathy" is the fourth type of urgency. By the way, I have no idea whether Orlando has real urgency or faux urgency. I'm leaning toward the latter. Stay tuned.)

So Bagels, are you gonna pretend you didnt see this or what?

Quote:
"MJ -- Winning. Hands down, all he wanted to do was win. And that's over-used for a lot of athletes, but not him.

"Kobe -- Greatness. Yes he's going to win some, but only because he wants to be considered great and that will be a by-product at times. But you'd also see him shoot his team out of a game; jack 3s when he should press the issue and get to the paint. He didn't mind losing a few games if people came away saying 'Kobe is great; look what happens when he doesn't shoot.'"

"LeBron -- Amaze. I think he just really wants to amaze people. Which is why he spends 10 minutes before the game throwing underhand, left-hand half-court shots. Why he celebrates amazing dunks and blocks, but isn't working just as hard to win. I know the Cavs aren't great without him, but he's got PLENTY on that team to win rings with."

Is that totally fair? Probably not. But just for fun, let's extend Chris' game ...

Russell, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Walton, West and Havlicek: Winning.

Wilt: Numbers.

Oscar and Barry: Perfection.

Shaq: Fame.

Kareem and Elgin: Pride.

Moses: Rebounds.

Malone and Garnett: Work.

Barkley: Fun.

Cousy, Stockton, Isiah, Pippen and Nash: Team.

For Doc and LeBron, you probably need more than one word. By the rules of the game, we can use only one. And so, we're forced to pick this one: Amaze. You are who you are.


Not sure Id put Magic in the WIN category. He liked to entertain too.



Artest: Paid

Sheed: Weed

Kemp: Bitches


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 Post subject: Re: Bill Simmons
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:33 pm 
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no i did see that
i agree
they quit on woodson


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