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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:02 am 
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JasonB wrote:
the problem is harrington will never be a 7th or 8th guy. he wants to start and he wants starting money. his ego wont allow him to play 2nd fiddle


2nd fiddle? He would be like 7th fiddle on a great team. How do you know what his expectations are? He hasn't played on a good team in 7 years. That's gotta hurt anyone with pride. He's made alot of money already. I guess we'll see. I agree with you he shouldnt get starting money.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:38 am 
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:lol: Is Kopono still in the NBA?

Edit: Apparently he is. I think it's safe to say that I'm the only one in the world that googled Jason Kopono today.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:49 am 
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Welcome to Day 2 of LeBron Week, a five-part look at every aspect of LeBron James' journey through free agency. On Tuesday, David Thorpe constructs a team around James, outlining both the style of play and types of players LeBron should have at his disposal to reach his full potential.

LeBron James' size, speed, talent, skills and personality allow him to shine in any possible basketball style and with almost any kind of personnel around him. But in a perfect world in which we could build a team from scratch, there is one brand of basketball, and a certain crop of players, that would energize LeBron to new levels.

Lace up your track shoes, because we're going for a run. Or, rather, a prolonged sprint.

The System

LeBron is arguably the most talented player in the league in nearly every facet of his game, but his speed, in particular, is unmatched at his position, especially considering his height and weight. LeBron, on the wing, at full gallop, is probably the surest bucket in basketball, which makes it all the more odd that the Cleveland Cavaliers played at the sixth-slowest pace in the league this season.

So, goal No. 1 for our new team is running at every opportunity. Makes or misses, it matters not. Our rule will be simple: If LeBron gets the rebound or a steal, he utilizes his exemplary playmaking skills to lead the break. If not, he has to fly and we have to find our point guard, who'll look for LBJ immediately. James is not just the best player in the world; he's also the best decoy. If his teammates join him in sprinting the floor, they will get easy buckets, because the defense will be keyed on slowing LeBron first. Bigs are especially useful if they're runners; they'll occupy the first defenders back in the paint, allowing 3-point shooters to get open looks.

In the halfcourt, the Cavs' offense relies heavily on isolation sets and two-man pick-and-rolls, which can often take other players out of the game. We're instead going to run a flowing offense that keeps players moving and cutting, not unlike Utah's motion offense, in which all five players move in a pattern with options galore. Sure, we'll isolate LeBron or a teammate here and there, and he'll run his share of ball screens, too, but it's hard to scout/shut down a team that runs a motion offense in which every player is a threat to score.

On defense, LeBron is going to spearhead a fast, trapping, pressure-oriented scheme, one that hopes to entice our opponents into the frenzied game we are hoping to play. (Think less college press and more what Philadelphia tried to do this season.) In order to keep those points-per-possession numbers in check, however, it's essential this team have a good shot blocker patrolling the paint.

The Team

Now that we have our system in place, who will run with King James? The common denominator for all our players will be, of course, speed -- every player we acquire has to be able to race the floor and have the mindset to do so at any moment. We also want players with size, toughness, a coachable attitude and the willingness to be, at best, the second-best player on the team.

We do need some natural scorers around LBJ. He's great at leading guys to buckets, but we don't want to have to feature him at all times. And defenses will force us to score in the halfcourt too, so that's where we need to tighten our search even further.

Point Guard
Some point guards, like Jameer Nelson, are better controlling the game at a more moderate tempo, and while they surely can be successful next to LeBron, they're not right for this style. Our guy has to be a pace pusher who relentlessly attacks the basket in the mold of Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook. They are both great one-on-one scorers and have big bodies that can punish guards in the paint off cuts and seals, making them perfect receivers for LeBron in the halfcourt.

Deron Williams is probably the best fit overall, but we don't need an exceptional passer at the 1 to be successful, thanks to what LeBron can do for us in that department. Nevertheless, we are willing to pay big dollars for a player at this position, because a scoring point guard (even one who does not have great passing skills) will have a huge impact on our team in taking some of pressure off James on offense. Mo Williams fills this role somewhat for Cleveland, but he isn't special in the way he'd need to be here.

Shooting Guard
Our 2-guard has to be a lights-out 3-point shooter. We could pay more for someone who can slash and/or guard wings well, so that LeBron doesn't always have to defend a scorer, but with much of our secondary financial resources likely going to the point, we have to save some money at this position.

To best take advantage of our passing game, we're looking for guys who can pass and play, not just shoot. I like Kyle Korver and Anthony Morrow -- guys who are relatively cheap but great teammates and dead-eye shooters, not to mention available this summer as free agents themselves. They are also smart players with good feel, so they can find LeBron when he needs the ball and flow to open spots when there is dribble penetration.

Power Forward and Center
Our bigs will need to be rebounding sprinters with good hands and the ability to seal off the paint on defense. At least one of them will have to be a good shot blocker. It goes without saying that guys like Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard both would be great partners to LeBron. But they are not the only ones who would be perfect complements on this team.

David Lee would be an interesting guy to have, with his great hands and underrated passing skills. But we could also look at a guy like Channing Frye, who will also be available this summer. Signing Frye would give us our trail 3-point specialist, a must for a sprinting team, but then we'd have to get a monster rebounder/defender at the other big spot.

My dream pairing, however, is Al Horford and Joakim Noah, two selfless guys who are incredible leaders on their respective teams. The former Florida teammates can run, rebound, pass, screen, seal inside and lock in on defense. Horford is also a very effective shooter from 16-to-23 feet, making 48 percent of his attempts. (Dirk Nowitzki, by comparison, shot just 46 percent.) And Noah (43 percent) has the tools to learn to be a better shooter, opening the lanes for LeBron and our point guard that much more.

Believe it or not, should the New Jersey Nets get the No. 1 pick in the lottery and land John Wall, they might be the best equipped to be the team we just described. Courtney Lee is an ideal 2 for this team and Brook Lopez is a great prospect down low. Yi Jianlian came on strong at season's end (13 ppg, nine rpg and two bpg in April) and looks like he can be a legit 3-point shooter in time. They're a young team that could end up being very good, even without LeBron.

Or really good, should the Nets win another lottery this summer.

David Thorpe is an NBA analyst for ESPN.com's Scouts Inc. and the executive director of the Pro Training Center in Clearwater, Fla., where he oversees the player development program for NBA and college players.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:54 am 
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David Thorpe is the best basketball writer I've read but I'm not sure he told us anything we didn't already know right there, except I will disagree with him about the Nets. I dont think they are a better fit than Chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:02 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Current roster + Ray Allen fit the mold perfectly.


Ideally Deng's contract money would be going to a quality PF, but overall I agree I think that'd be a dream scenario for the Bulls and they have the money to do it. If the C's win it all this year though, I cant imagine Ray leaving. I would think they'd wanna defend their title.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:04 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
David Thorpe is the best basketball writer I've read but I'm not sure he told us anything we didn't already know right there, except I will disagree with him about the Nets. I dont think they are a better fit than Chicago.


I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:06 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
David Thorpe is the best basketball writer I've read but I'm not sure he told us anything we didn't already know right there, except I will disagree with him about the Nets. I dont think they are a better fit than Chicago.


I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm


There's very little chance Wall will be better than Rose from Game 1 next season, although I also think he'll be great. I think it's possible LeBron goes to the Nets, I just would be very surprised if he wasnt playing for the Bulls, Cavs, or Knicks next season.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:07 pm 
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HOVA wrote:

I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm



I agree. If LeBron truly wants to go where he has the best chance for multiple championships, then he's going to Chicago or New Jersey. If he puts his brand/marketing/image ahead of a team closest to a championship, then it's New York or Chicago.

I"m surprised how little play NJ is getting nationally.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:10 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls.


Did you mean "chances" instead of "roster"? Even with Wall added right now to that roster it's not nearly as good as the Bulls(not a great roster anyways). Devin Harris and Brook Lopez are the only proven starters, and Lee is the only other player who's even proven he can be a rotation player for a contender. A ton of holes in that roster still, although they do have the assets to significantly alter that this summer.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:11 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
David Thorpe is the best basketball writer I've read but I'm not sure he told us anything we didn't already know right there, except I will disagree with him about the Nets. I dont think they are a better fit than Chicago.


I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

Politics as usual


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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:30 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
HOVA wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
David Thorpe is the best basketball writer I've read but I'm not sure he told us anything we didn't already know right there, except I will disagree with him about the Nets. I dont think they are a better fit than Chicago.


I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm

Politics as usual


I'm feeling it.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
HOVA wrote:

I keep telling myself no way LeBron would play in NJ instead of coming to Chicago but the more I think about it the more I believe it is possible. In many ways tonight may be key to that decision being made. LeBron is close to Jay-Z and if the nets get the #1 pick (Wall may be better than Rose already) that may push the Nets roster ahead of the Bulls. The fact that they have $9M more to spend than the Bulls would make it easier for them to bring in 2 max guys.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm



I agree. If LeBron truly wants to go where he has the best chance for multiple championships, then he's going to Chicago or New Jersey. If he puts his brand/marketing/image ahead of a team closest to a championship, then it's New York or Chicago.

I"m surprised how little play NJ is getting nationally.


How about the Clippers? LeBron James with Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffen and Chris Kaman looks pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:59 pm 
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They're the Clippers though. Bad things always happen. LeBron's arm would likely fall off before his first game. There are certain teams you have to avoid. Kobe would still get the most attention in LA because he plays for the team that most people in LA care about.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:01 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Do not want to go too off-topic, but can someone point out to me what you see with Wall that makes him such a lock to be great?

I could see saying Wall in his first NBA game would be better than Rose in his first NBA game, but Rose has developed so much, and is such a great player...with more technical skills than John Wall has, or will even develop. I understand he is fast...athletic....but I see Rose with all this, and more.


Honestly Wall can do everything Rose can do right now.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:03 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Do not want to go too off-topic, but can someone point out to me what you see with Wall that makes him such a lock to be great?

I could see saying Wall in his first NBA game would be better than Rose in his first NBA game, but Rose has developed so much, and is such a great player...with more technical skills than John Wall has, or will even develop. I understand he is fast...athletic....but I see Rose with all this, and more.


Honestly Wall can do everything Rose can do right now.

Really? Can he purchase liquor?

Does he have the ultra important "Playoff experience"?


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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:03 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
They're the Clippers though. Bad things always happen. LeBron's arm would likely fall off before his first game. There are certain teams you have to avoid. Kobe would still get the most attention in LA because he plays for the team that most people in LA care about.



Pretty sure Simmons wrote a 2 page column about various 'Clipperisms'

Edit: Here it is.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ortCat=nba

Someone forward this to LBJ

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:07 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
HOVA wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Do not want to go too off-topic, but can someone point out to me what you see with Wall that makes him such a lock to be great?

I could see saying Wall in his first NBA game would be better than Rose in his first NBA game, but Rose has developed so much, and is such a great player...with more technical skills than John Wall has, or will even develop. I understand he is fast...athletic....but I see Rose with all this, and more.


Honestly Wall can do everything Rose can do right now.

Really? Can he purchase liquor?

Does he have the ultra important "Playoff experience"?


Courtney Lee can tell him about it while he gets him a 12-pack.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:11 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
They're the Clippers though. Bad things always happen. LeBron's arm would likely fall off before his first game. There are certain teams you have to avoid. Kobe would still get the most attention in LA because he plays for the team that most people in LA care about.


I think the Clippers are targeting Carmelo Anthony in the next free agent class.

But, yeah, the Clippers are an example of an organization that can't get it done, regardless of player talent. They are like the anti-Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:45 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Do not want to go too off-topic, but can someone point out to me what you see with Wall that makes him such a lock to be great?

I could see saying Wall in his first NBA game would be better than Rose in his first NBA game, but Rose has developed so much, and is such a great player...with more technical skills than John Wall has, or will even develop. I understand he is fast...athletic....but I see Rose with all this, and more.


Honestly Wall can do everything Rose can do right now.


I went out of my way to watch as many UK games as I could, and in no way is Wall as good a mid range shooter as Rose is right now. Off the top of my head Magic is the only rookie PG I can think of that was better than Rose is now as a rookie. Rose right now was better than Chris Paul as a rookie.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Wall could shoot the ball better than Rose could up until the last few months of the season. He is arguably more explosive and faster and he is more of a pure PG. I would be surprised if he didn't end up being the better player.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:05 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
Wall could shoot the ball better than Rose could up until the last few months of the season. He is arguably more explosive and faster and he is more of a pure PG. I would be surprised if he didn't end up being the better player.


He's a better passer. Hard to say either way who's more explosive. I believe Rose is stronger. Rose might not have been a better shooter coming into the league but I dont think it's a contest right now who's the better shooter. I agree that Wall is literally a cant-miss prospect, but right now he is not a better player than Rose.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:14 pm 
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I'll concede it was a little hyperbole to say next season.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:57 pm 
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The thing that hurts the Bulls the most in their quest for Lebron, or that makes them a tough fit, is that they have NOBODY that can knock down threes. Luol showed some flashes early in the season and then forgot that 3s are worth more than 2s and stuck to a heavy diet of 21 footers.

My ideal 2nd target after the Bulls get Lebron is to get JJ Reddick. He's a free agent and quietly had a good year this year. He's never going to be worthy of his lottery pick status, but he's still serviceable as a guy who can knock down the corner three or come off of a screen like Ray Allen and knock down a jumper.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Bulldog Scott wrote:
The thing that hurts the Bulls the most in their quest for Lebron, or that makes them a tough fit, is that they have NOBODY that can knock down threes. Luol showed some flashes early in the season and then forgot that 3s are worth more than 2s and stuck to a heavy diet of 21 footers.

My ideal 2nd target after the Bulls get Lebron is to get JJ Reddick. He's a free agent and quietly had a good year this year. He's never going to be worthy of his lottery pick status, but he's still serviceable as a guy who can knock down the corner three or come off of a screen like Ray Allen and knock down a jumper.


I agree. I think they need to go after JJ. He has also become a very decent defender and better all around player. The game he started for VC I think he dropped a 23-8-7 or something similar. But yeah overall it's his shooting this team desperately needs.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:24 pm 
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I think Frye is the guy to go get. He can knock down the outside shot and he can play the 4.

Noah
Frye
Deng
LeBron
Rose

Deng and Rose have really good mid range games but they need to work on extending them this Summer. Having LeBron and Rose on the court at the same time would mean easy baskets for a lot of people.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:32 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
I think Frye is the guy to go get. He can knock down the outside shot and he can play the 4.

Noah
Frye
Deng
Wade
Rose

Deng and Rose have really good mid range games but they need to work on extending them this Summer. Having Wade and Rose on the court at the same time would mean easy baskets for a lot of people.


Fixed for quality's sake.

I agree with you on all points but why would Frye wanna leave PHX assuming the salaries are relatively similar? He already knows he has the best system fit for him in his career.

Also David Thorpe was recently asked to describe Rose with a 3 point shot and he said Unstoppable. I agree. I'm not sure he'll ever be a good 3 point shooter, but at the very least he needs to be able to make > 32% and prove capable of knocking down a wide open one.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:34 pm 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:35 pm 
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I think Rose could end up being Wade. Would that really work?

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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:40 pm 
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HOVA wrote:
I think Rose could end up being Wade. Would that really work?


I think so. Isiah and Dumars werent hitting threes while winning titles. We even already have a Bill Laimbeer.

This team obviously needs three point shooting badly, but LeBron doesnt bring that either and Joe Johnson obviously isnt nearly as good as either of them.

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 Post subject: Re: LEBRON TO CHICAGO?
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:43 pm 
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-10-11

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