Bernsie on LeBron

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:27 pm

Brian's Mojito wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Here's the thing. For years bernstein's mantra has been that such intangibles as "grindiness", leadership, etc. don't actually exist, or at least aren't important. That stuff is really just crap for meatball fans to discuss. He's even gone so far to ask athletes about it and when he hasn't received the answer to support his view, he's written it off as them saying the right thing. Now, suddenly, when it comes to LeBron James, these intangible qualities are crucial and his perception that LeBron lacks them has led danny to whining like a guy whose wife just left him or a kid who discovered there is no Santa Claus.

Every listener should be calling bullshit early and often, but you probably have to do it during WYC when he can't protest. Because I can just hear him in his pseudo-intellectual slow voice saying something like, "This is different. The type of leadership in the NBA game that I'm referencing is tangible. It has to do with taking the last shot in key situations. I just thought LeBron was better than he is. I wanted him to be the greatest ever. I wanted him to be better than Kobe and Jordan. But he just isn't. He isn't who I thought he was. He. Isn't. Who. I. Thought. He. Was."

Bernsie is the one who doesn't fully acknowledge that "this is different". He wastes a lot of time trying to make correlations and there aren't any.
The weakest point of Bernsie's case deals with LeBron's "performance". We don't know what is going to take place on the court. The thought that LeBron's game will be lessened is just absurd. "He's not going to take last-second shots". Says who? Maybe he will suck, but shouldn't we wait until he steps foot on the court to make any of these observations?

That's EXACTLY RIGHT, Mojito! There is absolutely no relationship between what an athlete says and the way he performs on the court or field. Bernstein himself points this fact out regularly, so it's a bit odd that he has neglected it in LeBron's case.

Brian's Mojito · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:15 pm

Tall, the thought doesn't fit with Bernsie's argument. That's why he conveniently left it out.

Hungry Jack · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:52 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Here's the thing. For years bernstein's mantra has been that such intangibles as "grindiness", leadership, etc. don't actually exist, or at least aren't important. That stuff is really just crap for meatball fans to discuss. He's even gone so far to ask athletes about it and when he hasn't received the answer to support his view, he's written it off as them saying the right thing. Now, suddenly, when it comes to LeBron James, these intangible qualities are crucial and his perception that LeBron lacks them has led danny to whining like a guy whose wife just left him or a kid who discovered there is no Santa Claus.

Every listener should be calling bullshit early and often, but you probably have to do it during WYC when he can't protest. Because I can just hear him in his pseudo-intellectual slow voice saying something like, "This is different. The type of leadership in the NBA game that I'm referencing is tangible. It has to do with taking the last shot in key situations. I just thought LeBron was better than he is. I wanted him to be the greatest ever. I wanted him to be better than Kobe and Jordan. But he just isn't. He isn't who I thought he was. He. Isn't. Who. I. Thought. He. Was."

Well put. I don't know why Bernsie was so fixated on LeBron being a transcendent talent, but I guess we all yearn for perfection ins some form or another. But he just needs to move on from it.

Brick · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:59 pm

Hungry Jack wrote:

Well put. I don't know why Bernsie was so fixated on LeBron being a transcendent talent, but I guess we all yearn for perfection ins some form or another. But he just needs to move on from it.

Lebron gave himself two nicknames: The Chosen One and King James. He's talked at length about how he wants to transcend sports and become a "global icon".

Then he was afraid that he would be 31 and with bad knees and with no titles.

Krazy Ivan · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:13 pm

Free Ajent · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:15 pm

KI, did you not have caffeine today? You and OKC were absent today, i need better from you all on a Friday!

Dave In Champaign · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:31 pm

Invisible Radio is worse than Imaginary Radio. LeBronukkah made for a great WYC moment, but at this point Bernstein has openly admitted being wrong enough times that this discussion shouldn't have continued past Tuesday afternoon. Bringing in the anti-grit stuff is pure false equivalency. Admiring David Eckstein because he looks like he's trying really hard and finding yourself disappointed that the greatest athletic talent of our era has knowingly, willingly, and permanently withdrawn from the Russell-Bird-Magic-MJ discussion at the age of 25 are such completely different propositions that if I didn't know better I'd think all of you were just taking an ill-conceived stab at whimsy.

Krazy Ivan · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:33 pm

Free Ajent wrote:

KI, did you not have caffeine today? You and OKC were absent today, i need better from you all on a Friday!

I just logged on not too long ago. These fuckers expect me to actually work... :roll:

Brick · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:34 am

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=48366

This article confirms just about everything that Bernstein is saying in my opinion.

Rod · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:13 pm

Dave In Champaign wrote:

Invisible Radio is worse than Imaginary Radio. LeBronukkah made for a great WYC moment, but at this point Bernstein has openly admitted being wrong enough times that this discussion shouldn't have continued past Tuesday afternoon. Bringing in the anti-grit stuff is pure false equivalency. Admiring David Eckstein because he looks like he's trying really hard and finding yourself disappointed that the greatest athletic talent of our era has knowingly, willingly, and permanently withdrawn from the Russell-Bird-Magic-MJ discussion at the age of 25 are such completely different propositions that if I didn't know better I'd think all of you were just taking an ill-conceived stab at whimsy.

What? Why has he withdrawn? Because he put together his own team to make his title runs rather than waiting for some GM to do it for him? He hasn't withdrawn from anything. The perception that he has declined to lead is no different than the perception that Eckstein's effort helps his team. It's just a perception. It has no basis in reality. Or maybe it does. But since we can't measure it, why discuss it? That's bernstein's philosophy. Or at least it was until LeBron didn't choose the Bulls.

Scooter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:19 am

JORR-The KING made his own bed.Now he must lie in it. He does not want to be the MAN. He wants all the crowns but does not want to be KING. He wants rings on his fingers but does not want dirt on his shiny ass shoes. He took the pussy way out. Spin it any way you want he ducked in the alley when the shit flew. I am not a Bulls or Heat fan ,Christ I do not even like the NBA but I know a pusswad when I see one. James took the easy way out!!!!

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:28 am

I don't care about the NBA either. And I don't have any strong opinions about LeBron James one way or another. It just seems to me- an unbiased observer who doesn't give a fuck- that a lot of people who are commenting on LeBron seem to be coming at this from a sour grapes perspective. Like the story about the way he acted prior to the Olympics. That's two years old. Why wasn't that reported before? If James had chosen Cleveland would all the same people who are tearing him apart now have said how great and mature he was?

li'l danny bernstein fancies himself as an astute observer of all things NBA. Are you telling me that he has watched LeBron for seven years and couldn't tell he wasn't a leader? It took LeBron deciding to play with friends in Miami to come to such a conclusion?

Maybe Isiah Thomas and Kobe are the only guys who have actually won a championship. I'm pretty sure everyone else has had another Hall of Famer on his team.

Hungry Jack · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:22 pm

Behold the Internet! Where the moral high ground is only a click away!

Seriously, who are we to truly judge someone's character until the body of work is completely done? I think LBJ deserves at least a few more years before we judge his leadership skills.

Darkside · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:58 pm

Hungry Jack wrote:

Behold the Internet! Where the moral high ground is only a click away!

Seriously, who are we to truly judge someone's character until the body of work is completely done? I think LBJ deserves at least a few more years before we judge his leadership skills.

You didn't see enough of his lack of leadership in the playoffs last year?
Dang.

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Darkside wrote:

Hungry Jack wrote:

Behold the Internet! Where the moral high ground is only a click away!

Seriously, who are we to truly judge someone's character until the body of work is completely done? I think LBJ deserves at least a few more years before we judge his leadership skills.

You didn't see enough of his lack of leadership in the playoffs last year?
Dang.

bernstein didn't see it either and he is a leading NBA analyst. He thought LeBron was going to lead the Bulls to many titles. When he chose Miami, suddenly his inability to lead became clear to danny.

Hungry Jack · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:12 pm

More Krazy Ivan and some cowbell, please.

Dave In Champaign · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:45 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

What? Why has he withdrawn? Because he put together his own team to make his title runs rather than waiting for some GM to do it for him? He hasn't withdrawn from anything. The perception that he has declined to lead is no different than the perception that Eckstein's effort helps his team. It's just a perception. It has no basis in reality. Or maybe it does. But since we can't measure it, why discuss it? That's bernstein's philosophy. Or at least it was until LeBron didn't choose the Bulls.

Eckstein's effort is a false perception based on groundless stereotypes, wishful thinking, and willful ignorance. Disappointment in LeBron is a personal opinion based on the entirely real and tangible events surrounding his departure from Cleveland.

That said, belabored or not, the hits just keep on coming. Bernstein's take on the Wojo piece Friday afternoon was nothing short of embarrassing. Apparently Rose's refusal to reach out to LeBron makes Bernstein "want to grab Derrick Rose and hug him," proves that "Derrick's got a lot more 'it' than LeBron does," and evinces Rose's motivation to be the best player on an NBA champion. The material is there to build an epic WYC, but frankly the incoherent hypocrisy in that segment was so profound that merely pointing it out almost seems mean-spirited.

Harry Seaward · **Joined:** Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:05 pm **Posts:** 1729

It is funny hearing Dan ridicule LeBron and praise Rose....I recall, just a few weeks ago, Dan (with much smarm in his voice) talking about Paxson's no headband rule. And how this is LeBron, and if LeBron wants to play naked you let him play naked etc. Now, like a betrayed lover, Dan lashes out and embraces the fact that Rose didn't reach out and lick the King's ass (which, I promise, Dan would have DEMANDED that Rose do just a few weeks ago).

I know Dan will smugly dismiss his 180 by stating "I was wrong, that's it...this is now how I feel" - but damn do he and his partner LOVE pointing out, and making fun of, others do much softer Jason Kidd-type 360s.

Rod · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:21 pm

Dave In Champaign wrote:

Eckstein's effort is a false perception based on groundless stereotypes, wishful thinking, and willful ignorance. Disappointment in LeBron is a personal opinion based on the entirely real and tangible events surrounding his departure from Cleveland.

li'l danny's perception of LeBron's on court leadership was that it was good enough prior to his signing with Miami that bernstein was salivating over the prospect of him joining the Bulls. bernstein feels like a spurned lover. After "The Decision" danny spoke to Goff about how he still "wanted to like LeBron". From there each day it has gotten worse to where danny now believes that the EXACT SAME PLAYER he truly believed was better than Michael Jordan a scant two weeks ago is now not even worth having on an NBA team. And this without him even playing a single game or doing anything other than exercising his right to free agency. It's absurd. He should really call Rongey with these thoughts.

Rod · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:31 pm

Harry Seaward wrote:

Dan lashes out and embraces the fact that Rose didn't reach out and lick the King's ass (which, I promise, Dan would have DEMANDED that Rose do just a few weeks ago).

Agreed, I guarantee a conversation could have gone like this:

li'l danny: You have Derrick call him up. If that's what it takes, you do it. It's. that. simple. Rose makes that call. Without LeBron the Bulls aren't winning a championship. Boozer puts them in NBA hell. Rose needs to make that call. Do it.

Terry: I, I, I, again, uh, look, you've got a chance at LeBron, uh, eh, you do whatever it takes, uh, uh, but, you know, uh, uh, and I've always said this, this is the same Bulls management that had Paxson and Vinny uh, uh, pulling each other's ties in the locker room, uh eh, and, uh, look, you've got to do what it takes to get this guy, and, in point of fact, uh, uh, my guy says the Bulls have as good a chance as anyone.

li'l danny: Do it. Have Derrick pick up the phone now.

Reared on the Score · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:34 pm

Harry Seaward wrote:

It is funny hearing Dan ridicule LeBron and praise Rose....I recall, just a few weeks ago, Dan (with much smarm in his voice) talking about Paxson's no headband rule. And how this is LeBron, and if LeBron wants to play naked you let him play naked etc. Now, like a betrayed lover, Dan lashes out and embraces the fact that Rose didn't reach out and lick the King's ass (which, I promise, Dan would have DEMANDED that Rose do just a few weeks ago).

I know Dan will smugly dismiss his 180 by stating "I was wrong, that's it...this is now how I feel" - but damn do he and his partner LOVE pointing out, and making fun of, others do much softer Jason Kidd-type 360s.

Bingo, Bernstein's LeBron talk since taking his talents to south beach is basically meatballism, or in his usual definition of it. If it's all about the banners, LeBron will be more successful than Rose, so who cares about legacy and ass-licking?

I always thought they were kind of NBA meatballs, though.

Dave In Champaign · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:39 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

li'l danny's perception of LeBron's on court leadership was that it was good enough prior to his signing with Miami that bernstein was salivating over the prospect of him joining the Bulls. bernstein feels like a spurned lover. After "The Decision" danny spoke to Goff about how he still "wanted to like LeBron". From there each day it has gotten worse to where danny now believes that the EXACT SAME PLAYER he truly believed was better than Michael Jordan a scant two weeks ago is now not even worth having on an NBA team. And this without him even playing a single game or doing anything other than exercising his right to free agency. It's absurd. He should really call Rongey with these thoughts.

No one with two ears and a radio can argue that The Decision has been a paradigm example of how Bernstein's loutish self-righteousness often forces him to perform ever-more-laughable rhetorical contortions. But if you really think the last month has been nothing more than a player exercising his right to free agency then you've either been living on another planet or your hatred for Bernstein's shtick has so cauled your worldview that you sincerely believe his hypocrisy can somehow negate both material reality and social consensus.

Rod · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:05 pm

Dave In Champaign wrote:

No one with two ears and a radio can argue that The Decision has been a paradigm example of how Bernstein's loutish self-righteousness often forces him to perform ever-more-laughable rhetorical contortions. But if you really think the last month has been nothing more than a player exercising his right to free agency then you've either been living on another planet or your hatred for Bernstein's shtick has so cauled your worldview that you sincerely believe his hypocrisy can somehow negate both material reality and social consensus.

Social consensus? Do you really think meatball callers to radio shows and athletes trying to protect their own legacies represent "social consensus"? A top player decided where and with whom he wanted to play. It wasn't Jackie Robinson breaking the color line. He's probably going to win championships on a team with other good players just like Magic, Bird, and Jordan did. Stop trying to make it out like winning with Wade and Bosh is somehow easier than winning with Pippen and Rodman or McHale and DJ or Kareem and Worthy. Because it isn't. And it counts just as much. Full stop.

W_Z · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:10 pm

i'm pretty sure this point's been made but...i really'd like to know if bernsie would be whining this much and saying how he's been cowardly if he got wade and bosh to come to cleveland.

Scorehead · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:17 pm

W_Z wrote:

i'm pretty sure this point's been made but...i really'd like to know if bernsie would be whining this much and saying how he's been cowardly if he got wade and bosh to come to cleveland.

Or, if Lebron, Wade, & Bosh came to the Bull.

W_Z · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:17 pm

yes, even better! that would probably just be a "winning combination" and "smart moves" by everyone.

Dave In Champaign · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:11 am

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Social consensus? Do you really think meatball callers to radio shows and athletes trying to protect their own legacies represent "social consensus"? A top player decided where and with whom he wanted to play. It wasn't Jackie Robinson breaking the color line. He's probably going to win championships on a team with other good players just like Magic, Bird, and Jordan did. Stop trying to make it out like winning with Wade and Bosh is somehow easier than winning with Pippen and Rodman or McHale and DJ or Kareem and Worthy. Because it isn't. And it counts just as much. Full stop.

If I wanted to listen to someone lecture me about the importance of championships and the unimportance of everything else, I'd dig up some old pre-Decision podcasts and get it straight from the horse's mouth.

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:46 am

Dave In Champaign wrote:

If I wanted to listen to someone lecture me about the importance of championships and the unimportance of everything else, I'd dig up some old pre-Decision podcasts and get it straight from the horse's mouth.

I'm certainly not lecturing anyone that "championships are the only thing that matter". I don't view sports that way. Sports are entertainment.

HOVA · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:23 pm

JORR the difference between LeBron and those guys is they didn't run away from THEIR team to play Robin. LeBron ran from HIS team that had won 60 games 2 years in a row. Those players wanted a challenge. There is a special feeling you have when you win after a struggle. LeBron won't have that. Their really is no comparison between LeBron and the greats. While IMO LeBron is more talented than any player in NBA history he won't even be a top 5 player when his career is over. Those players had that "it" that LeBron and many of the players today lack. I've been saying this for at least 3 years now so unlike Bernstein you can't tell me I'm making these statements because he isn't a Bull.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:29 pm

I love the Lebron "Most Talented" BS. This guy needs to play both ends of the court and not just in the 4th quarter. That is one big seperation between him & Jordan. Also the stats at equal points in their careers still favor Jordan. So I too think Lebron is an unstoppable force. He may be a great offensive star but not a complete star yet.

Bernsie on LeBron

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