I agree that almost all Chicagoans are Bear fans. In fact, I said so in the post you referenced. But I don't think they're all equally as passionate about the Bears as they are about the Cubs/Sox. Of course there are hardcore football guys that don't really give a shit about baseball. Mac is a guy like that. He just wants baseball over so he can talk football through his whole show.

I don't know. Like I've said over and over, I don't think you can answer the question definitively. Each single football game is far more important than a single baseball game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Every single baseball game is very important. Has there been a game , #17 in football? No. In each of the last 3 years though, there has been a game #163 in baseball.


There are also fans spread out all over the country. Lots of Cubs fans all over beacuse of WGN, but they can't go to games. So are they fans? Same thing with football. is WZ not a Saints fan because he lives here and can't get to a game every year?

I really can't believe this thread is still going, and I really can't believe you are being so stubborn. I can be one of if not the most stubborn sonavabitch on here, but you're going to all sorts of new levels in this thread.

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Come on, man. I'm not being stubborn at all. I'm being completely reasonable. If you're going to use TV ratings for a football game, shouldn't you take the ratings for one baseball game and multiply it by ten? I'm sure Rick will have an equally reasonable response why we should not. Probably something having to do with the same people watching all tens games. But that's exactly my point. They're two different games, played at two different times of the year, with wildly different schedules. Now you tell me, how the fuck am I being stubborn?




I'd guess if a sport was really so popular and someone was such a big fan of it, he or she would make an attempt to see it played live at some point. Over 90% of all people who call themselves NFL fans have never seen a game. The games aren't played on the moon. It's not that hard or that expensive. On the one hand Rick wants to tell us that MLB attendance doesn't count because people see multiple games. On the other he wants to say that people don't get to NFL games because it costs more. Does going to one fuckin' NFL game really cost more than going to multiple MLB games?

I'm willing to let the thread end. But don't keep firing and expect me not to answer. I'm a fan of the Replacements and I don't listen to Britney Spears even though she has sold more records than they ever will. I like Stranger Than Paradise better than Hot Shots Part Deux even though more people saw the latter. I'm perfectly happy being a fan of a less popular sport if that's actually the case. I'm just far from certain it is.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I guess most people don't have valuable memorabilia to sell to go see the game of their choice...

_________________
We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

You must be correct since according to Rick a regular season NFL game is more in demand than most World Series games. You'd probably need to sell a Curly Lambeau leather helmet just to grab a nosebleed seat to a preseason game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's Rick's thing.

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Why would we multiple it by ten? If we are comparing national games(or the total ratings that Fox gets from it's 3 localized national games), then we don't need to do that. You really don't get the concept do you?

Also, save the whole "people aren't interested in the world series" thing. That kills your argument too.
You keep saying this but you keep ignoring the head to head competition of the World Series games vs. football games. That's one game, played on the same day or within a day or two of each other. That's the exact same time of year, with the exact same schedule. If anything, that's a disadvantage for football because games in the championship series are more important than games in the regular season. Football still wins. You can stop spouting that point already. It's already been proven to be invalid because of October baseball.
It's clear you are simply unable to understand the basic concept that NFL attendance and MLB both have limits on the amount of people who can attend and therefore MLB will always win out because that limit is significantly higher. I already showed how the Dallas Cowboys, with over 100% capacity, have less total attendance than a team that can't even fill 40% of it's stadium. If you think that's a fair way to judge things then there is nothing more to be said.
Both games will sell out. More people will watch the NFL game. That's right Joe. The World Series takes a back seat to regular season NFL games and you know what's funny. Not a single person on here thinks otherwise besides you. Anyone who does simply wishes it to be true but most realize that the days of baseball being America's past time ended decades ago.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Can we all just agree that Mac and Meat suck donkey balls and move on?

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There are more than ten baseball games for every football game. You're the one who doesn't get the concept.



Stop misquoting me. I never said "people aren't interested in the World Series". What I said was, baseball is a much more regional game than football. The two sports have been marketed very differently. I know that's difficult for you to get your head around since marketing strategies don't work on you. baseball has a problem in that about a quarter of the teams have no chance before the season begins. And the fans know it. That doesn't mean they aren't fans. They'll still find the money to attend a few games each summer, unlike the majority of football "fans", but they probably won't be on the edge of their seats watching Boston play Colorado.



See what I wrote above.



And it's clear you believe committing one's disposable income to a season ticket package and traveling to see games in person is equivalent to rolling out of bed on Sunday afternoon and turning on the television.



Except for that fact that not every NFL game sells out you might be right. And I'm not a guy who gives a fuck what other people think. Other people are often wrong. What you can't grasp is that you really don't know which sport is more "popular", what ever that means. And neither do I. You're just too dogmatic to relent.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes.

First, you can walk up to almost any MLB box office on gameday and get tickets. The Red Sox might be the only exception. At this point, even the Cubs probably have a few tickets available on most game days.

Second, you can likely find people selling tickets on the streets for at or maybe slightly above face value.

For NFL, you either have to have season tickets or know somebody that has season tickets. Except for maybe the Jaguars, Lions, and Raiders, you can't walk up the box office on Sunday and expect to get tickets. Those are are selling tickets on the streets, thru brokers, on StubHub etc are going to be asking for much much more than face. Face value alone is a lot more for NFL than MLB. Check the Bears, Cubs, and Sox websites for verification on that.




Thats right. The farming family in rural Iowa or Minnesota who can barely make ends meet, but have been following the Cubs on WGN for generations aren't fans because they don't have the means or the money to get to Wrigley Field. I remember seeing a story on the news late last season about some 90some year old man who went to his first Cubs game even though he had been following the team for 8 decades. Its a good thing he has that ticket stub, because now he can really call himself a fan!!!

I'm not sure what they put in the water along Joe Orr Road, but I'll be staying away from it thats for sure. I'm dumb enough as it is.

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My non scientific poll of Chicago Sports fans is showing some preliminary results.
I asked for your top 5 sports in order. I give 5 points to the first answer, 4 to the next, 3 to the next and so on. I've found that NFL appears to be the most popular sport followed by MLB. The next most popular sport will surprise you, coming right up on Darkside and Darkside, now back and better than ever.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I know what face value is for the tickets and believe me it doesn't cost more to attend one NFL game than four MLB games. And you can buy a ticket in the parking lot at any Bears game. I'm guessing you can do so anywhere else too. And If we're trying to measure popularity, I think we have to weigh someone who actually makes an effort to attend a game more heavily than someone who turns on a television, don't you?




Yeah, it's at least a five day trip by covered wagon. You're a funny guy, Frank. Do I really have to pull up your posts from another thread where you talk about all the fans at Wrigley that came on buses from Iowa? I'm sure I can do that even without a search function.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No. That comment is entirely preposterous. For many, many reasons. Many of which you've dismissed with even more preposterous comments.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

wow. Yes, tourists come to Wrigley but that doesn't mean everybody can afford it. So in your eyes, the end all be all of being a fan is going to the games. Got it. I've been to 2 Rockies games so I guess they are my 2nd favorite team behind the Sox! Hell, one more game at Coors Field and they leap frog the Bears!!

A staff sargeant from Texas is now stationed in Iraq. He claims to be a big Cowboys fan, but because he can't get to the game, I guess he is not a fan right?


If I went to the 4 half price Monday games and sat in the upper deck, the total cost for my Sox tickets would be $48. See if you can find me a regular season Bears ticket in the upper level for less than $48. Thats extreme so you probably couldn't do 4 MLB games for one NFL game all the time, but without question at least 2 MLB games, and 3 MLB games for the same as one NFL game is not out of the question at all.

_________________

Did you guys know that Ohio State football is more popular than the Super Bowl?

74,059 attended the super bowl.

Over 100,000 people attend games at Ohio State multiple times a year. The same is true for Michigan and Penn State.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This year I have gone to Sox/Yankees and Mets/Twins. Who am I a fan of?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not Jay Cutler thats for sure

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Well, I've never seen him play in person, so according to JORR I'm not a fan that matters much.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Darkside.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Maybe you're misunderstanding me, Frank. Of course, I think you can be a fan without actually attending games. But I also think if we're attempting to measure popularity (which we really can't do) we have to count people who do attend live more heavily than someone who watches on television. Are people who watch Iron Chef fans of cooking or fans of cooking shows? Probably some of both.

And I'm not asking that Staff Sergeant to attend a particular game in a particular week. I know he can't get to Soldier Field when he's in Basra. But if he's really such a big fan, don't you think he'd attend at least one, single game in his entire life? What I'm telling you is that over 90% of NFL fans NEVER DO. And that makes it different from baseball right there. I'm sure there aren't many baseball fans, regardless of the remote outpost in which they may reside, that don't make it to at least one major league game in their lives.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Since no one else has asked, I'd like to know, where did this statistic come from?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I read the article in either the Sun-Times or the Tribune. I'm pretty sure McNeil talked about it on his show too.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Good point. I bet it comes from a statistic that states "90% of people who watch the Super Bowl have never attended an NFL game".

If watching the Super Bowl makes you a fan then for about the thirtieth time in this thread JORR just lost because nearly 100 million people are then NFL fans.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Orr, what the fuck don't you get? Not everybody has the means to go to an NFL or MLB game. Not everybody even has the opportunity even if they have the money to spend. People that live in rural areas have to drive for hours (sometimes days) to see a pro game be played.


Example: NFL fans in Helana, MT have the following options by car. Drive 8-9 hours to Denver, drive 10-12 hours to Seattle, drive 14-16 hours to Minneapolis to see an NFL or MLB game. So, we have to give more credit to the guy who wears a Sox hat and is handed free tickets one day, even though he doesn't even know who Gordon Beckham is, more than the guy who watches on TV and follows his team online in Helana?

I don't think so.

_________________

No, Rick, it was "over 90% of people that call themselves NFL fans have never attended a game". I don't find that so hard to believe, do you?

By the way, I haven't "lost" anything. You have some strange ideas about what the word "prove" means.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

And I thought the official stance of the board was that this show wasn't even on the fucking air anymore!

_________________

Look Rick and Frank are looking at stats and coming up with their stance.

JORR is saying there are unmeasurables he considers crucial to determining popularity.


Neither is backing off.


Moveon.org

Frank, what the fuck don't you get? We don't live in a third world country. "Poor people" take vacations to Disneyworld for Christ's sake. You're veering into the stupid argument wherein the goof with the family of four complains that he can't afford to take his family to a game. It's x amount of dollars for four tickets, two large beers, four small cokes, four hot dogs, four programs, and two caps. That motherfucker doing the complaining has three big screens (probably all tuned to Monday Night Football), two SUVS, and vacations in Orlando every year. Those are things I don't have and things I don't do. Make your fucking choices and stop whining. The guy who actually spends his hard earned money on the games and does make that drive from Helena has to count more in a popularity contest than one who rolls out of bed Sunday and flips on the TV to see who is playing the noon game on Fox. Rick wants to count those guys equally.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

People take vacations, yes. There are lots of people out of work or very slow at work that can't afford to do that anymore. I guess on top of that, we have to revoke thier "NFL Fan" card too.

_________________

Popularity is measured by one person, one vote. Just like tv ratings, elections, school referendums, and pretty much any type of polling. They never ask "Do you really care a lot about this? If you do, we'll count you more than once".

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!