I don't hate Scottie.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

While that would be wonderful, I would settle for him to just stop posting meatball crap like Moncrief is better than Pippen. His meatballery is over the top. It is too bad Jimmymeatball died, he was a much better meatballer.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Quite naturally, it is a prodigious honor in any fashion to present someone for the Hall of Fame, but moreso for myself when doing so for someone that spent so many years watching me play. Scotty Pippen was uncontrovertibly the greatest Jordannaire of them all to some degree. Like a piece of gum that has been chewed and expectorated upon the ground and indisputably sticking to your shoe, Scotty stuck by me.

He was loyal in that "can't get that shit off me" kind of way. Certainly, I'm joking. He wasn't always near me. I could never find him at the end of a game.

In all seriousness, I have many great memories of playing with Scotty. I remember Game 5 against the Cleveland. We were in the huddle with :03 to play and I said to Doug, "GIVE ME THE BALL" because I knew if I didn't get the ball Red Kerr was going to kill himself. Of course, it's historically a fact that I hit the shot and, in my excitedness, I nearly punched Brad Sellers in the face myself. Scotty was on the floor as well.

Another undeniably great Scotty story was in Utah, Game 5 when I was poisoned by the bad pizza, I got some bad pie alright . Anyway, I knew we needed that game and that's where I got the strength to put 38 on the Jazz. But, Scotty played a role in that game too when he helped me to the bench after I had won it.

I've got hundreds of great Scotty stories like that and that's why I feel he, correctly, belongs in a wing near myself in this great Hall. I'd like to thank Randy Brown for reading this on my behalf. Undoubtedly, I really wish that I could have been there myself but Michael Jordan has an early tee time.

So, kindly, if Randy or someone could shake Scotty's hand for me and tell him congratulations I'd appreciate it. YOU TELL HIM!!

I doubt you even knew who Moncreif was until I posted his name. Just because you get ten ignorant people to shout down one guy who knows what he's talking about doesn't make you "right".

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah you are the only one around here who knows anything about basketball history

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I don't know what would have been done in the hypothetical world. I know what happened in the real world, and Scottie Pippen was one of the two people that lead what is at worst one of the best 2 or 3 teams in NBA history.

The impact on the game wasn't even close. Pippen helped define an entire generation of basketball.

Moncrief is already completely forgotten and a footnote to that generation of basketball. He was a good player who had a good career who really didn't make an impact on the league.

You can basically take any top 20 NBA player and make a case that if you switch them with someone who actually did accomplish great things that he could do it. The thing is though that they didn't and "could haves" matter very little. Pippen goes down as one of two people who defined 90's basketball. Can you say the same thing about Moncrief and his generation?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I really doubt many people here followed the game very closely prior to 1980. So, instead of sniping and name-calling let's have a discussion about NBA history. Is Scottie more deserving of a place in the Top 50 than McAdoo?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

@ MJeff

And where the hell is Scottie?!

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"You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution."

Muerto.

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That's a somewhat reasonable viewpoint. But Bulls fans often like to argue all over the place. For example, if I make an argument that Magic was the greater player than Jordan, the Jordan supporter will inevitably say that Michael was a one-man team and Magic was surrounded by great players. Then something like this comes up and suddenly Scottie is in the pantheon of all-time greats. I'm not accusing you of that, but those arguments do come up often.

It sounds like you're saying those championships meant a lot and I'd agree that they do. But many great players never won a ring.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes. McAdoo wasn't even a starter on the two championship teams he played on.

Scottie was a starter and almost as important as the greatest player of all time to the greatest dynasty in NBA history.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Jordan played with one all-time great. The next best player afterwards may have been Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman. That list goes much deeper for Magic.
That's a different discussion. You can't discount that Scottie was an integral part of 6 championships. You have to give credit to what we know and Scottie's resume puts him in the top 50 and maybe as high as top 20.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

McAdoo's best years were in Buffalo at the beginning of his career. Of course Michael Jordan wasn't on those teams so he never won a championship. He was near the end of his career and he was still a better than good role player in LA.

Let me ask you, does Ron Harper deserve a place in the Top 50 before McAdoo?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's utterly ridiculous. Maybe the top 20 since 1990. But like I said earlier, I don't really care enough to get in a big argument about it.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So the excuse is that his best years were when he was young and he got worse when most hit the prime of their careers?
No. It really doesn't matter though. Neither deserve to be in it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Additionally, it's not just that Jordan was a better scorer than Pippen. Rather, Jordan WAS the freaking offense. He was the guy opposing teams strategized around, the guy they double teamed, and the guy they feared. Pippen was the other guy.

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If I'm reading Rick's post correctly, it seems that history is being rewritten to suggest that Pippen and Jordan were co-leaders of the championship teams. That's not how I remember it. Or at least I don't remember anyone believing that at the time. Maybe Pippen was as important as Jordan. If that's true, shouldn't it diminish Jordan to some degree?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Love the guys talking about Pippen.

I always like hearing Goff talk hoops.

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." ~ H.L. Mencken

You aren't but that's ok. Jordan was the leader. Pippen was incredibly important to the team and without him they aren't nearly as dominant as they ended up being.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I do remember Sidney Moncrief. That is the main reason why I asked if you were joking. When healthy he was a really good player and a great defender. Fact isi Scottie did EVERYTHING better. There really isn't a comparison. I really get the feeling you stopped watching basketball in the late 80's based on your belief that Scottie is a borderline top 50 player. There is only 1 SF that was obviously better than Scottie and that is Bird. You can make a great argument for Dominique but that's pretty much where it ends. Scottie could dominate a game across the board like very few other people his size that ever played the game. He is on of the top 15 to 20 greatest players to ever play the game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... esc01.html

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So you're saying they DIDN'T game plan for Scottie? That he pretty much played a Ron Artest role? Fact is Scottie did whatever was needed to win. If that meant rebounding and playing defense or scoring that is what he did. Fact is he proved that he could lead a team when Jordan left and was the better all around player when Jordan came back. I believe many of you believe the game begins and ends with scoring.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/1994/

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Okay, but it isn't hard to see where I got that idea.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I never once mentioned leadership in any of those quotes. Jordan was easily the leader of the team on personality alone.

Those quotes talk about how important he was to the team and not leadership.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're correct in that I did follow basketball, particularly the NBA much more closely prior to the 90s. But I paid attention to the Bulls championships.

I think you're pretty far off in calling Pippen a top 20 all-time player. Like I've been saying, he's near the bottom of the Top 50 list and perhaps shouldn't have even made it. Dominique was clearly better. And Moncrief was a better scorer than Pippen and probably a better defender as well. Unfortunately, injuries cut his career short. Here's what Jordan himself had to say about him: "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it." Not a bad assessment, considering Moncrief played with a degenerative knee problem that one doctor said would limit him to no more than two years of pro basketball. [From Moncreif's NBA bio.] Anyway, I'm not suggesting Moncrief is a Top 50 type player. His career is what it is. Injuries count. That's why Pippen was the better player with the better career. But they're really weren't drastically different as players.

Anyway, I take issue with Rick dismissing Moncrief by suggesting he is largely forgotten. While that may be the case, it's really not good argument. George Mikan was voted the best player of the first 50 years of the NBA and he's largely forgotten too. That's more of a critique of the people who are forgetting rather than the players they have forgotten.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR I kind of see what you are angling for, but when your ammunition is a Sidney Moncrief it's just not going to hold water. Some people attribute the coining of "point forward" to Nelly with Moncreif, and that may well be the case. However Pippen was the only player that fully realized the concept, later seen in players like Grant Hill (Detroit vintage) and LBJ.
A true initiator of the offense, and Pipp was a better defender than anyone else mentioned in this post.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

You didn't?



I can only read what you type. I can't guess what you mean.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So let me get this straight JORR. You complain that we cannot adequately talk about players pre 1980 because most of us did not pay attention, but yet you turn around and admit that you did not pay attention as much to basketball post 1990?

STFU!

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Fair enough. That wasn't how I meant it. I didn't, and never would argue that Pippen had the same leadership role on the team as Jordan. I meant "lead" in that context more in the terms of "was one of the main reasons why it happened". Jordan was more important both in his play and in his leadership. Pippen wasn't as far away as you would expect though given how Jordan was the best ever.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"