Will kickers opt for an illegal procedure rather than kick to Hester?
Probably not.
Effectiveness dilluted. That's a fact.
Will he still bring a couple back? Maybe, but not so many above average that kickers go illegal procedure or punters pop it out of bounds. I think those days might be gone. They were wasted putting Hester at WR.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The only returner I can remember playing in the NFL was Vinny Sutherland, and he's back in Texas partying now.
I'm saying that I think by next year that his skills will have declined to the point where we definitely have better options. It's not like punt returners last forever. He would still be on kick returns if he really was that far ahead of anyone else on the roster.
I didn't say today. I think this is the last year he should be the punt returner. He showed last night that he still has a little bit left but I wouldn't count on him for too much longer.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The cycle of arguing with you is complete.

I look forward to the next one if I avoid your ignore list.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'll save the ignore list for when you randomly start bashing me in threads I'm not even a part of.

Like last time.

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I'll take that bet.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If they wouldn't have made the switch do you think he'd have continued at the rate he was going?

"Effectiveness" vs "production" when talking about kick/punt returners.

Other than holding on to the ball, the only desired "product" OR "effect" out of a return man is to get the ball down the field as far as possible.

They mean the same thing to everyone except for one person.

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At the rate he was going you mean 6 a year?
Hell no.
But they did lose return production with him that was not made up with his work as a receiver.
Hester, whether he touched the ball or not, put the bears in GREAT field position almost all the time.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I see why they made the switch, didn't really love it at the time. I don't really understand why it changed his return game so much.

Because he spent his prime return time as a receiver and not returning.
It's like getting a superfast sports car, like say a Cobra.
You drive it only to the store and to take grandma to Church.
Then, when you got 150k miles on it you want to start racing it, and blow out your bottom end.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Effectiveness is a measure of what a player can do. Production is a measure of what a player did. In something like baseball, it's a lot closer linked. In football, outside of kickers, it's a much further link.
Notice that the definition actually contains the word "producing". Effectiveness is a measure of what you can do and what you bring to the table. Production is what actually happened which includes how others performed, opportunity, and random luck such as a bounce of the ball.

These are the actual definitions, so if "everyone except for one person" believes they are the same thing then they are factually wrong. This is not an opinion. They are two separate concepts. Now, if you happened to read effectiveness and transform it into production, then just admit that you misunderstood and move on. It's not a big deal. However, don't argue that I am wrong because you thought the two are interchangeable. They aren't and I didn't use them as interchangeable ideas.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wow. Now you are literally down to arguing the semantics of the entire discussion, when it was clear what you origianally meant. Your ability to "just keep going" with any argument is unreal. Not admirable in any way, just unreal.

edit: wait, so you are arguing Hester's capability of producing the desired results, but not the actual results themselves? Wow. Have fun with that. Just trying to understand why you felt the need to quote the definition.

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I think he might go off now that he has his confidence back. Of course the rest of the NFL may actually try to punt effectively against a return threat such as him.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

I used the term in a certain way, which I have explained a few times now. It also happened to be the correct way, as shown above. When someone is distorting my statements you better believe I'm going to correct it. If anyone is arguing semantics, it is you, and you are doing it wrong, as shown above. I'm simply clarifying. It's clear what I said. You just choose not to believe it.

I'll leave it with this.
Original quote.
Modified quote with definition of effectiveness replaced.
The effect in this case would be a touchdown.

That still makes sense, and fits with my original point, so at a minimum, it was acceptable for me to use that term and it's consistent to say that my point all along was that his "capability of producing a touchdown" will go down.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This statement is very emlhurstian.

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Not really considering so many people had a problem with it including yourself.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't have any problem with it, other then that its stupid.

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Fine, let's try again:

I believe that Hester's "capability of producing 1+ TD" in the next 35 games remains. Care to bet on that?



Was that really worth it for you? I picture you sitting at your computer, givingyourself an "atta boy" (complete with the tap of the fist to the chin) just like Anthony Michael Hall at the end of Breakfast Club. Only with slightly larger Dockers on.

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No. I think he could produce one touchdown again in his career. In fact, I would not take that bet with any starting punt returner even if they were from Purdue. Nearly any NFL punt returner is capable of a touchdown once every 2+ seasons. Some may not get it(production) but nearly are all capable(effectiveness).
Not really. It's not very enjoyable to have to explain myself over and over again when it was pretty clear the first time. Just remember that you replied to my thoughts, you misunderstood them, you argued endlessly about what I actually said even after clarification, and now you are the one claiming that I was doing it to try and "win" a stupid internet argument about Devin Hester. I hate to tell you are wrong again, but when you get to work from home there is no dress code. No Dockers for me!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

"A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

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You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

I heard a good quote for those that are in love with Mr. Orton. The Cubs should sign him since he performs in September and October and would not be needed past then. But for teams that need him to perform beyond that don't want him.

OMG that was so funny, I just couldn't stop laughing, I literally spit water all over my computer! wow holy shit, whew, did OKC write that one?

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You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

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Then you disagree with what you said the first time then, right? He's either capable or he isn't.

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Let's put this to an end. Hester said he would be trying something different during the week. This week he had different results than he has had in two years. I am hopeful his changed approach will permanently result in changed results.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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I believe that we will have someone more "capable" next year. We may already have one. I also believe that he will start to decline at a rate that makes him less likely to do so as he ages at a position that is for the young. This is what I said at the start. This is what I said all along. This is what I am saying now. I've been consistent. Read my very first quote.

Note: Is that another example of how I "just keep going" with any argument?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Considering your original post on this Hester thing was 2 pages back, yeah I'd say this is a shining example of you being the Energizer Bunny of debates/arguments on the internets.

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The thing is that spanky has responded every time and yet it's on me. I'm going to respond when someone mis characterizes what I am saying. You would too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!