it still is a great deal, put any of the top 7 qb's in this league with these o-linemen and wr's and what do you think they would do ....about the same.... brady schuab,rodgers,brees,rivers,( the same) maybe peyton and big ben would perform better. im not saying cutler is better than these guys. just look at the shit pile he has to play with and be productive

Ya'll must be crazy



The 2009 Packers led the league in sacks allowed.

Aaron Rodgers had 30 TDs 7 int and a 103 rtg

Ya'll must be forgetting who he is throwing to.

His own teammates?

Its a strategy Cutler should look at

Eli, Brett, Brees & Rodgers are leading the league in INTs. Couple more than Jay.

I thought we were talking 09 when Cutler had 27 and Rodgers had 7

Im certainly not talking about Favre.


Also Rodgers has 12:9, Cutler is 7:7

Which would you take?

Aaron Rodgers. I think he is playing (and has played) better than Cutler.


I don't think Aaron would be playing this well if he had the Bears o-line, and their WRs. Both this year, and last year.

Wasnt the Packer line worse last year?


Anyways, two first rd picks is looking pretty bad now.


Although, at the time with the circumstances, it was the right move IMO

Not sure how you can compare then directly to say they are worse. Both were bad. They were really bad to start, but it wasn't as major of a story later in the year.


And they still have/had markedly better WRs... which was kind of the point I am making.

The original post says no one could win with this Bears O line.


Fine, we'll never know for sure obviously.


All im doing is giving an example of a Line that was terrible at protecting the QB but the QB Excelled anyway.

And yes the Packers line was worse at pass protection last year. Especially early. But he never had a 4 int game or anything like it.

They also turned one of the picks into Johnny Knox, who seems like he could be a very solid #2 guy for a while.

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He also had markedly better WRs trying to catch the passes he threw. That can keep INT numbers down.

Knox is decent value for a 5th rder but I wouldnt say he's a #2.

He was pretty bad sunday wasnt he?

Illogical. One of the major reasons why they don't have weapons is because of the picks they gave up. That is exactly why these type of trades are so rare and why it virtually never works out for the team who trades the picks. They could have drafted Jeremy Maclin, who would far and away be the best receiver on the Bears. They could have drafted two offensive lineman and at least been improved. It's an interesting thing about offensive line play. You don't have to replace the whole line to get better. You just need some players to be relied on less. If we hit on an offensive lineman with one of those picks it would have made all the other players look better because we would lose a weak link on the line.

This doesn't even mention the fact that it's not all on the offensive line. They are giving up a ton of sacks, but that's because of the Martz system and Jay Cutler giving up on it. It's a terrible mix between the two. Martz wants pressure. Most of these plays are not designed for Jay to try and make a play out of nothing. Take your drop back and throw is what Martz wants every time. If it works, things are good. If it doesn't, then move on to the next play. This line isn't that much different than the league average line they were last year. The difference is Martz and Cutler not following his plan. That's not even a knock on Cutler. He's not that kind of QB. He has spent his whole life scrambling and using his talent to make plays. It's looking like a terrible system for him. There are many QBs who would perform better in it. Take a look at Jon Kitna in Detroit. That team was terrible, Kitna isn't very good, but he was able to run it relatively successfully.

So no, it's not a "great deal". Anyone who says that is delusional and has missed what has happened the past two years. It's going to have to work out significantly better for it to be a "great deal". They missed out on 3 valuable picks. Forget the whole, they got Johnny Knox too idea. Knox was a fifth round pick, and they drafted Iglesias in the third round. If they really wanted Knox, they could have found another way to get him. It just so happened they used that pick. It's just as valid to say that pick got us Marcus Freeman who was the actual pick of the Bears in that round.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

*SIGH*

Nobody knew Cutler would have THIS many INTs. Nobody knew Cutler would have an Oline that is THIS bad. Anybody that says they knew what Cutler would be and what the Oline would be is delusional themselves, Brick. You had a proven, pro bowl QB available for 2 draft picks. You make that deal 10 times out of 10 if you are in the Bears position.

And if say at the end of 2007 the Bears traded Rex Grossman and 2 picks for Cutler, I highly doubt you would be beating this as often and as hard as you have been over the past 2 years.

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Cutler has been a dissapointment for sure, but I still think he is the answer to the QB question. The problem is that Angelo hasn't addressed a LOT of the other question marks on this team for sometime now and its biting him in the ass.

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It was 3 draft picks, and my MAJOR point when I immediately questioned the trade was how this team did not have offensive talent to make it worth it. This was still within the first week of the trade when everyone was giddy over how we fleeced the Broncos and how stupid they were. If there was one thing that I didn't know, it was that Kyle Orton would develop into a top ten QB.
This is a lazy argument and was said from day one when I questioned the trade. Believe what you want but at the time of the trade I was one of the very few who even questioned it. Now, virtually everyone is even if they still think it was worth it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cutler is not the right QB for the Martz System. That system is all about throwing to a spot on the field, hoping a WR will be there. Cutler is actually athletic and can run the ball if needed.

Kurt Warner was slow and immobile, but he also had great WR's and a solid O-Line. The system worked for him. Cutler needs the freedom to move around and make his own decisions.

And thats on Angelo and Lovie.

This is still true, Rick. 100% true.

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It was three picks. You have a strange definition of 100% since you are factually incorrect. Even if you somehow consider a 3rd round pick and a 5th round pick equivalent, you then are ignoring that they gave up Kyle Orton in the deal, who was worth at least a 5th round pick in a trade.

The rest of it is opinion especially the "proven" part. Do you know who else was a "proven, pro bowl QB" the same year as Cutler? Kerry Collins.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It doesn't matter what receivers Cutler has at his disposal right now. He is too fixated (at no fault of his own) on throwing to wherever Martz tells him to throw the ball while big, fat, mean football players are chasing him.

I would love to see how Cutler would perform if he was given full freedom to throw the ball wherever the hell he wanted to. If INT's are "not important to Martz", then at least let them come due to a bad QB-decision and NOT because "that's where the ball is supposed to go".

The number of times Cutler has been sacked this season is a direct correlation to his inability to change the play how he wants.

You may be right before the play starts but I think many of his sacks are because he's letting a play go longer than Martz ever intends it to go.

Let me be clear again, especially for Frank, I put that on Martz and not Cutler. Cutler has spent his whole life making plays when things break down. Expecting him not to do so is bad coaching.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

100% correct. I don't care how good his O-line was in Denver or how "bad" our WR's are in Chicago. A QB like Cutler needs freedom to do what he feels necessary on the field.

By the way, isn't this the same QB that Martz deemed as being "brilliant"? More like "submissive".

Illogical. One of the major reasons why they don't have weapons is because of the picks they gave up. That is exactly why these type of trades are so rare and why it virtually never works out for the team who trades the picks. They could have drafted Jeremy Maclin, who would far and away be the best receiver on the Bears. They could have drafted two offensive lineman and at least been improved. It's an interesting thing about offensive line play. You don't have to replace the whole line to get better. You just need some players to be relied on less. If we hit on an offensive lineman with one of those picks it would have made all the other players look better because we would lose a weak link on the line.

This doesn't even mention the fact that it's not all on the offensive line. They are giving up a ton of sacks, but that's because of the Martz system and Jay Cutler giving up on it. It's a terrible mix between the two. Martz wants pressure. Most of these plays are not designed for Jay to try and make a play out of nothing. Take your drop back and throw is what Martz wants every time. If it works, things are good. If it doesn't, then move on to the next play. This line isn't that much different than the league average line they were last year. The difference is Martz and Cutler not following his plan. That's not even a knock on Cutler. He's not that kind of QB. He has spent his whole life scrambling and using his talent to make plays. It's looking like a terrible system for him. There are many QBs who would perform better in it. Take a look at Jon Kitna in Detroit. That team was terrible, Kitna isn't very good, but he was able to run it relatively successfully.

So no, it's not a "great deal". Anyone who says that is delusional and has missed what has happened the past two years. It's going to have to work out significantly better for it to be a "great deal". They missed out on 3 valuable picks. Forget the whole, they got Johnny Knox too idea. Knox was a fifth round pick, and they drafted Iglesias in the third round. If they really wanted Knox, they could have found another way to get him. It just so happened they used that pick. It's just as valid to say that pick got us Marcus Freeman who was the actual pick of the Bears in that round.[/


first round offensive picks for angelo 2002 m. columbo,2003 r.grossman,2005 c. benson 2007 g. olsen ,2008 c. williams, 2nd or 3rd round picks are supposed to be starters on your team in time; 2002 3rd t. metcalf, 2004 3rd b. berrian,2005 2nd m. bradley,2008 3rd e. bennett,2009 3rd j. ingleias your right thats the reason the bears are having these problems now because of the 2 first round picks the bears gave up

This is another standard response to it. The whole "Angelo would have wasted the picks anyways" stuff.
First off, that should really call into question whether or not Angelo was qualified to evaluate Cutler. If he can't draft talent he's just as likely to not be able to evaluate trades for offensive players.
Second, just because something didn't work out in the past doesn't mean that a current asset loses value. If I buy a stock for $5,000 and it ends up gone and worthless within a year I messed up. However, that doesn't mean the next $5,000 I have is worthless.
Third, why don't the Bears trade 50% of the picks they have every year and never draft an offensive player? Just let him draft defense and don't even try and make an offensive pick. The fact is that those picks are still valuable, even if many of them haven't worked out. The Chargers drafted Ryan Leaf, who was one of the worst picks of all time. The next two high round QB's they drafted were Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. Things can change.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

i didn't say angelo would of wasted those picks, you said that. secondly the MAJOR REASON you said that cutler is a bad pick up was the lack of weapons that were not accrued because of giving up 2 #1 picks,when you can clearly see my point: the fault lies with the shitty o-line and second class wr's the bears have on this team .cutler can not take over this team and make them superbowl champs, almost any other starter in this league would get similar results with this team,and that was my point exactly. put cutler on those teams that are considered good and i bet he would be in the top 5 of all qb's in this league

This is now Cutler's third system, with two separate teams, and he has never even been close to top 5. Even in his pro bowl season he was borderline top ten(see Kerry Collins also making the pro bowl).

Cutler is uniquely bad for this system. Other qb's wouldn't be.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

cutler in 2008- 4,526 yards 25 tds 18 ints #3 in passing yards
collins in 2008 2,676 yards 12 tds 7 ints #24 in passing yards
seems like top 5 to me
dont listen to the radio talking heads all the time about the martz system if the line could block a 5 or 7 step drop at least half of the time, cutler can produce even with these so called nfl receivers, like i said put these other nfl qbs with this team and the results would be quite similar. do you think its the lack of team talent or the systems fault? you dont pass up a talent like cutlers when you have a chance to snag him for 2 number one picks. what does a qb who fits this system need to have to be a sucess? (besides blocking of course)

Since you really want to go down this route.
Cutler in 2008:
14th in completion percentage
3rd in yards
7th in touchdowns
Last in interceptions
16th in rating

Of the passers to get over 20 touchdowns, only him and Brett Favre had over 20 ints with most of them under 15.

If Cutler was top 5 in 2008, how many of these QB's was he better than?

Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

comp. % cutler14th, romo 16th, mcnabb18th, eli 19th, big ben21st,
comp. % trent edwards 6th, m. cassel 11th, shuan hill 12th so based on your take these 3 qbs are much better than cutler and the rest

you have to get that stats right if you post cutler- ints 18, farve 22, brees 17 ,romo 14, peyton 12
i thought tds /ints and passing yards were what qb stats were measured against, not comp. %. , which by the way the #8 qb in ratings was 91.4 and cutler all the way down to 16th place had a brutal qb rating of 86.0 for a whopping diffrence of 5.4 points between 8th and 16th place