Who was Cutler better than in 2008? He wasn't top 5. End of story.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cutler sucks. Go fuck yourself if you think otherwise.

_________________

You're slipping. You didn't call him gay.

_________________

I thought it was implied?

_________________

you stated never been close to top 5 in 2008 and also was border line top ten in 2008, the stats prove otherwise
when i disprove your points you just ignore your mistakes and then try to latch on to another absurd reason
to make yourself right

heres my proof: this makes him 3rd i believe unless you have another point to make

comp yards avg. td/ints
413 5069 316.0 34 17 brees
401 4583 286.4 30 14 warner
384 4526 282.9 25 18 cutler
341 4038 252.4 28 13 rodgers
312 4009 250.6 34 11 rivers
371 4002 250.1 27 12 manning

I must have misunderstood this. At least you acknowledge that he wasn't in any way top 5.

I was wrong about the interception number. I don't know why I cited 2009's number. Sorry.

I think you overrate total yards. Cutler may have been third in total yards that year but this year Orton is 2nd in total yards, and not even me will say he's doing better than Manning, Brees, and Aaron Rodgers.

Here is my case why Cutler was borderline top 10 that year.

Clearly better(5):
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning

Most would agree they were better(3):
Donovan McNabb- 3916 yards, 23 tds, 11 int
Tony Romo- 3448 yards, 26 tds, 14 ints
Eli Manning- 3238 yards, 21 tds, 10 ints

Debatable who was better(2):
Chad Pennington- 3653 yards, 19 tds, 7 int
Matt Cassel- 3693 yards, 21 tds, 11 ints

Notice that everyone on that list has a better td/int ratio while throwing a similar number of tds. Many of them had higher yards an attempt meaning that Cutler's higher total yardage is as much of a function of the number of attempts and less of his actual play.

That is why it's borderline. Also, while not a perfect metric, he did end up 16th in QB rating that year.

If your point is that Cutler was the third best QB in the league that year I will accept it because of passing yards alone. I like you First Time Caller. You think that Kyle Orton is the second best QB in the league this year. Even I won't be willing to say that.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

i just feel cutler has a good skill set , hes just burdened by poor talent around him. i dont absolve him of all the blame though. he makes foolish mistakes but i believe he doesnt just totally suck and shouldnt be dismissed as a bust by everyone.

It's a great deal just based on sole fact that trading in the NFL doesn't allow for you to get that kind of talent at that position.

This isn't just an utter lack of talent or fundamental understanding of that game at some positions, coupled with the fact that even the WR who is not involved in catching the ball on any one play, still has a significant role. Every man on the field, involved or not, has a job, and none of them are excelling, let alone competent. With WR's specifically, they are tasked with running routes, to free up other routes. Assuming that these guys could have done that is absurd. You couldn't count on these guys to run back to the ball when Cutler was in trouble last year. Something that is taught to kids in pop warner...

It is just a massive amount of stupidity at every level, and it is intoxicating.

_________________
"Mattress technology has come a long way"

- Dan Bernstein, 2016

This argument is going in the wrong direction. Cutler was 9th in YPA and top-10 in advanced metrics (5th in DYAR and 7th in DVOA) in 2008. The question has nothing to do with his pre-Bears career and everything to do with the fact that he's regressed significantly in his 4th and now 5th seasons, which barring injury is practically unprecedented for a QB with his skills and pedigree. If your answer is that he was overrated in 2008, the only real way to sustain the argument is to contend that his success in Denver was tied to a quality offensive line, talented skill position players, and good coaching. That being the case, he can't rightly bear the brunt of the Bears' offensive failures now, because the team has been bafflingly obdurate in their refusal to provide Cutler with those same tools in Chicago.

_________________
The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Ha. I've always thought of myself as a poor man's JORR.

_________________
The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Jay Cutler's QB ratings (NFL ranking in parentheses):

2006 88.5 (n/a, not enough games)
2007 88.1 (12)
2008 86.0 (16)
2009 76.8 (21)
2010 84.1 (19)

How anyone can look at these and see a current or even developing "elite, franchise, or all-pro" caliber QB is bewildering. You can point to certain faults of his teammates, but how long can you credibly do that?

Arm strength is only one part of a QB's value. Leadership and mental ability are just as important. In that respect, Cutler is like Jeff George or Alonzo Spellman -- body of a world beater, brain of an egg beater. Of course, his o-line is now getting those eggs scrambled.

_________________

no matter what happens this weekend , IT STILL WAS WORTH THE TWO #1 PICKS!

Biggest no brainer in the history of earth.

Well, two years after the trade, the Bears are in the NFC Title game at home, and the Broncos have the #2 pick in the draft and have already fired the coach that made the trade.



If this is what it's like to lose a trade, I sure don't ever want to win one.

Any way you can guarantee they wouldnt be in the same spot with the 2 number 1's and Ortman still at QB??

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I would say that given Angelos track record for #1 draft picks...yea...there's no way they are in the NFC title game with those picks & with Orton at QB. Orton will soon be a career journeyman backup QB. He's a rag-armed mediocre player.
At some point you gotta stop hatin' & jump on the bus. Hell...I've even given Lovie Smith some credit!

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

So wait... I think a trade was a good trade, then the evidence indicates that it was, but now I also have to prove a hypothetical that the same result couldn't have been achieved without the trade?? How can any move be declared a good move, when put to that test? Does one have to prove the Bulls wouldn't have won any titles in the 90s, in order to say that Michael Jordan might have been a good draft choice?

The closest evidence we have to how well a team does with Kyle Orton and two #1's is how well Denver is doing with that package. How's it working out for them?

What I like about Jay is that if he's got 3 or 4 INTs in a game he's not afraid to throw the 5th. That's the kind of bravado you need your quarterback. With Jay, moreso than other years, I think we've always got a chance because we've got a quarterback who has the ability to pull some shit out of his ass and make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Still to this day, whenever I see a pass 5 feet over the receiver's head I call it an Air Ortman.

btw, given Jerry's track record with drafting first round picks, what makes you think we'd have some sort of impact players that would have the ability to affect any given game like Jay Cutler?

_________________