This was a few years back so my memory is hazy, but isn't this how things started with the Iraq war?

1. U.S. wants to check for Weapons of Mass Destruction
2. Asks UN and UN complies but doesn't find any
3. Bush wants to go in using force anyways to "get WMDs and protect US and freedom"
4. UN says don't, US does anyways with some BS supporting countries (what was the cheesy name he gave this group of no-name countries again?)
5. US kicks some ass pretty quickly but doesn't find ANY WMDs
6. To save face, Bush stays in Iraq and twists the original purpose of the invasion from WMDs to "free Iraqi people"
7. Uses "free Iraqi people" as excuse to keep us there for several more years and to help justify us being there in first place.
8. Gets and kills Saddam
9. More troops and now getting stuff started with Iran
10. Continues getting away with disregarding privacy and constitutional freedoms of US citizens while at the same time "fighting for freedom" in Iraq
11. Profit???

Umm, thats about how it went. I always ask people now why we went to Iraq and they are quick to tell me that Iraq bombed the twin towers. Then I have to remind them Bush has done a great job of making you forget about Osama Bin Laden.

The thing about your post that got me was I forgot that we never went in there with the said inention of "freeing" the Iraqi people. This did come about when we couldn't find wmd's in Iraq. So there's another thing that people might have forgotten about. He had more than enough chances to get out of this mess and kept finding reasons to stay (well, his reasons).

step 1: collect underpants
step 2: ???
step 3: Profit

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@audioidkid

Axis of Terror, no wait
Evil Empire, no that was the Yankees
Axis of Evil, no that's Korea
Coalition of countries looking for a piece of war profits.

"We support your war of terror" - Borat

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Hawk, you forgot what goes between 5 & 6 - President Bush lands in a fighter jet (flown by a Marquette alum, by the way) on the USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003, and gives a speech with a "Mission Accomplished" banner in the background. What some speech writer/publicist envisioned as a great photo op has now come to symbolize the ignorance of the pre-war planning. Keith Olbermann ends every broadcast with the number of days since the declaration of Mission Accomplished; if my math is correct it has been 1,352 days today.



There were other great gaffes along the way, including Cheney's claim that the insurgency was in its final throes (May 2005) and that we would be greeted as liberators (3/16/03).

Some of the variety of excuses for invasion , all since refuted, were:

- stopping the proliferation of WMD
- Iraq has WMD
- Iraq and Osama bin Laden collaborated on the attacks of 9/11
- Iraq harbored the planners of 9/11 (found in Germany, by the way)
- Iraqi agents met with the planners of 9/11
- to stop terrorists from hijacking the world's oil supply
- to stop the recruitment and training of terrorists (recent studies show that the Iraq war has boosted this)

Reasons that we have remained in Iraq include:

- overthow Saddam
- establishing a democracy
- establish a government
- help establish free elections
- secure Bahgdad

If there is one thing in Iraq that this administration has exceeded at, is constantly redefining the reasons for our involvement with and in Iraq. Believe me - they are VERY good with that.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

This is flatly inaccurate. Though mindless Bush bashers repeat it ceaslessly, it has no basis in fact whatever. Here is Bush's address to the UN in September of 2002. As you can see, the reasons for invasion were outlined prior to invasion; the claim that they were "invented" on the fly is simply inaccurate.

Look, I'm no big fan of Bush, but lying or spreading inaccuracies is senseless; there are plenty of valid criticisms to be made.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Matt, don't kid yourself. The reasons used were trumped up at best. Why else do you think that Bush cited two 10 year old resolutions? Bush had an agenda, and he made a case for invading.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Matt, I just read that entire thing and at no point did I see anything about this country doing all the work to establish a new government and provide so much time, manpower, and resources to do so. The closest thing I could find was this.

"If all these steps are taken, it will signal a new openness and accountability in Iraq and it could open the prospect of the United Nations helping to build a government that represents all Iraqis, a government based on respect for human rights, economic liberty and internationally supervised elections. "

I bolded the words I feel are key. COULD OPEN the PROSPECT of the UN HELPING. He didn't say the US would, but that the UN might consider the possibility. Big difference 4 years later when it's all the US doing everything. We were sold a bill of goods and a rationale for going there. That bill of goods ended up being fraudulent along with the rationale. Most of that speech deals with how dangerous Iraq is with their nuclear scientists and potential to hurt and murder a bunch of people. Nothing in there leads me to believe that my original posts were "flatly inaccurate". I'm more than willing to admit if I was wrong and said so in the title, but still don't see any evidence.

I hope to GOD Nas that you are kidding. I have friends who have served and are serving. I have a buddy who will be going to Iraq after serving over a year in Afghanistan. Hell, if I hadn't accepted my job when I did I'd be over there. I would like to think I know your personality after all this time on the boards, and I suspect that was sarcasm. If I'm wrong, then you better have a stronger position than that.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

i'm guessing that there is a hint of sarcasm there, paul....

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@audioidkid

I don't deny there was an agenda. My claim is quite specific: that the reasons for invasion included freeing the Iraqi people well before invasion. Any claim to the contrary is simply false, and easily proven so.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

But Matt, all I've seen is that Bush said the IDEA of a free Iraq was a good one. Not that he was tasking the US with the responsibility to overthrow, rebuild, and stabilize the whole country all on our own. Big difference.

If we used that for a reason to invade every country whose people aren't free in our sense, we would never not be at war. To quote Chuck D, "don't believe the hype."

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Well, he was standing there, addressing the UN on why he feels Hussein should be opposed. The claim was that the "excuse" that the Iraqi people ought to be liberated came later, when no WMDs were found. I believe that speech demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that the claim is false. Further, we did not take the responsibility all on our own.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

There were no problems in the world prior to January 20, 2001.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that then because I still don't see anything in that speech that says there was a plan to actually turn them into a democratic country, just that it would be a good thing if they were. I know we didn't go in on our own with that BS "Coalition of the Willing" but aside from England, we've done everything and now they're not even helping much anymore. We did take the responsibility on our own though when we went against the UN and went in with our military.

Well, there was 'strategery' involved. The idea was to force change in key nations, to bring about large-scale global changes. As a concept, it's actually pretty understandable, IMO. Obviously the planning and execution was half baked.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Given the context, I think that's fairly obvious. He wasn't bullshitting with his friends about how nice it would be if Iraq were a democratic nation; he was addressing the freaking UN, making a case for invasion. The speech was all about giving the reasons for invasion; he names the very reasons I hear people claiming time and time again did not exist prior to invasion. Revisionist history.


Australia played a fairly big role as well.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Yeah, but Clinton got a BJ.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Because we did everything wrong

how are u defining the word "a"??

Man, i loved me some Clinton